Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[amnesiajune]

This isn't as simple as repaving intersections. The city would have to rebuild the road and sidewalk, relocate hydro poles, and on a lot of roads it's completely impossible because of space constraints. The only thing that would be easy to do is install traffic lights that let buses through before the rest of traffic.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If it's extended west it should connect with Downsview Park station to also connect with GO.

 

[BMO]

You'd think that such intersections would be built when the new suburb developments get to widen their narrow country roads to multi-lane suburban roads. Or when they have to repave or rebuild the intersections in the outer 416. But they don't.

Probably requires an Environmental Assessment or amendment.

YUP. Unless there's some municipal policy that ensure that any future widening projects take into account adding bus queue lanes, etc At which point, theoretically an EA for a road widening would include a bus queue lane. Unfortunately most roads are widened in suburban areas waaaaay before a bus queue lane is even warranted so the optics of have it remain unused for years wouldn't work.

 

[UD2]

YUP. Unless there's some municipal policy that ensure that any future widening projects take into account adding bus queue lanes, etc At which point, theoretically an EA for a road widening would include a bus queue lane. Unfortunately most roads are widened in suburban areas waaaaay before a bus queue lane is even warranted so the optics of have it remain unused for years wouldn't work.

Also the fact that problem intersection (like Victoria and Sheppard) are usually so backed up that the bus will get stuck in traffic far before any queue jump lanes begin. Busses will be stuck before an intersection for 3 or 4 light cycles only to be stuck again right after it crosses intersection.

Dedicated lanes are needed to be effective.

 

[Fred.S]

This isn't as simple as repaving intersections. The city would have to rebuild the road and sidewalk, relocate hydro poles, and on a lot of roads it's completely impossible because of space constraints. The only thing that would be easy to do is install traffic lights that let buses through before the rest of traffic.

The city owns 36 metres of width along the entire Sheppard right-of-way (St Clair, for example, is only 30 m). Looking at Google Maps, you could get from Don Mills to Pharmacy without any widening, and maintain at least two general traffic lanes in each direction. From Pharmacy eastwards, you would only need to add an extra lane width, or two. Poles and sidewalks may need to be adjusted, but it's entirely viable.

McCowan is also really wide, and you could run a BRT in dedicated lanes from Sheppard down to Triton Rd (Scarbrough Centre station bus entrance, future subway station location), for the 190 express.

I think centre-of-the road dedicated lanes are the way to go. BRT-Lite is not a bad idea, but buses will still get stuck between intersections in Toronto's traffic, unless you have really long approach lanes, at which point you might as well go for full BRT. If you have the width, you can also add bypass lanes at stops so buses can pass each other and skip stops, for express services. This is common in larger South American systems, to even the load across a route and provide faster service.

 

[amnesiajune]

The city owns 36 metres of width along the entire Sheppard right-of-way (St Clair, for example, is only 30 m).

Between Yonge and Dufferin? I don't think so.

Anyways, I was referring to other bus routes. For example, Steeles and Finch between Bayview and Yonge? Jane, Keele, Dufferin and Bathurst south of the 401?

 

[Fred.S]

Between Yonge and Dufferin? I don't think so.

Anyways, I was referring to other bus routes. For example, Steeles and Finch between Bayview and Yonge? Jane, Keele, Dufferin and Bathurst south of the 401?

I was going by the city's Official Plan for width: https://www1.toronto.ca/planning/3-rightofway-widths.pdf
https://www1.toronto.ca/planning/3-rightofway-widths.pdf
For Sheppard between Yonge and Dufferin, as well as many other spots, the city probably owns property well into some front yards/driveways/parking lots. I don't think that's an issue on Sheppard East.

 

[gweed123]

I was going by the city's Official Plan for width: https://www1.toronto.ca/planning/3-rightofway-widths.pdf
For Sheppard between Yonge and Dufferin, as well as many other spots, the city probably owns property well into some front yards/driveways/parking lots. I don't think that's an issue on Sheppard East.

For queue jump lanes you don't even need it along the entire corridor, just at intersections. And at most major intersections along the Sheppard East corridor, it's commercial property, not low density residential. When it is residential, it's usually the landscaping in front of an apartment complex.

I count 13 major intersections from east of Don Mills to Meadowvale. Even at $10 million/intersection for reconstruction (a liberal estimate), we're still only looking at $130 million for the entire corridor. That's just over 10% of the project cost of the LRT, and you'd get practically the same speed as the LRT.

 

[11th]

Problem with extending Sheppard subway though, is that you introduce a short transfer for many people.

LRT/Bus --> Agincourt
Sheppard Subway --> Don Mills
DRL Subway --> Downtown

When we can just make Sheppard/Don Mills the transfer hub instead.

As for improving transit service on the Sheppard corridor, I believe the benefits can be achieved through BRT-lite. Give buses queue-lane jumping at intersections and signal priority and it will be more than adequate upgrade for the Sheppard corridor.

Depends how long's the subway extension:
Agincourt -> 1) GO for downtown bound, 2) subway for DRL, line 1 (both ends), 3) LRT/BRT for anywhere east of Agincourt.
Don Mills -> 1) DRL for downtown, 2) subway for line 1, or to GO Stouffville, or anywhere east, 3) limited bus will continue to run from Don Mills to Meadowvale.

 

[sixrings]

once you get to Agincourt you might as well hit STC.... Im ok with a subway going from downsview across sheppard to STC... any further then that is crazy but then people will say it is an attack on poor people and immigrants not serving Malvern.

 

[11th]

once you get to Agincourt you might as well hit STC.... Im ok with a subway going from downsview across sheppard to STC... any further then that is crazy but then people will say it is an attack on poor people and immigrants not serving Malvern.

Ideally Malvern should be served by the CP ROW - be it the midtown GO line, LRT, or even make a branch out of line 4 to run surface in the ROW (4-cars train every 10min). The station becomes a hub for Malvern, and minibuses loop around the neighbourhood shuttling people to the station.

 

[kEiThZ]

once you get to Agincourt you might as well hit STC.... Im ok with a subway going from downsview across sheppard to STC... any further then that is crazy but then people will say it is an attack on poor people and immigrants not serving Malvern.

Nobody will say that.

Your suggestion was the original plan for the Sheppard Subway.

 

[sixrings]

People (Ford) used that same rhetoric to cancel the SRT plan and then claim he would treat north west Toronto like first class citizens with its own Finch Subway.

 

[Cobra]

once you get to Agincourt you might as well hit STC.... Im ok with a subway going from downsview across sheppard to STC... any further then that is crazy but then people will say it is an attack on poor people and immigrants not serving Malvern.

That makes the most sense to me. It's pretty obvious that the chess board is setting up for completing Sheppard as originally designed once and for all.

Besides, extending Crosstown East to Malvern is still possible, the EA from the Malvern LRT would still apply I'm assuming

 

[kEiThZ]

That makes the most sense to me. It's pretty obvious that the chess board is setting up for completing Sheppard as originally designed once and for all.

Besides, extending Crosstown East to Malvern is still possible, the EA from the Malvern LRT would still apply I'm assuming

Doesn't seem like that to me.

There's no money in the kitty. Especially if the Danforth subway is being extended.

Sheppard will be LRT. The only debate is how to best integrate it.