Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[BurlOak]

I am not certain what you are suggesting exactly but looking at the map if we were to make STC the hub, then you will have to construct Midland, Brimley and maybe a McCowan station on the Sheppard line, and pretty much nearly double the length of Sheppard subway extension (VP to Agincourt is nearly length of Agincourt to STC).

Sorry, I was trying to reply to a few posts and deleted the wrong stuff.

The right solution would be to either extend the subway further east to meet up with Line 2 at McCowan, or convert the Sheppard Line to LRT and built the extension east as LRT. I foresee that Sheppard may be extended as a subway eventually. However, for the next 5 years, we wont see much action on it. Scarborough gets what it elects. They didn't support the LRT, so they will have to live with the bus routes to serve north Scarborough for the next decade at least.

If a subway is going from Don Mills to STC and then Kennedy, would it not make more sense to make STC the hub. The length of subway and number of stations would be the exact same. STC would be a hub for many GO buses. The Markham GO line intersects both lines.

 

[BurlOak]

Agreed. If you were going for vote buying with transit projects, RER is a much better investment (politically speaking, but also in terms of planning). It provides the same benefits as a subway, but you can hit a lot more ridings with the same amount of money. With ~$3 billion in your pocket, you can hit up a heck of a lot more GO stations touting the benefits of RER than you can hitting up a couple subway stations in Scarborough talking about a Sheppard Subway.

And that explains why the DRL is always pushed off.

 

[nfitz]

I thought the Finch Line was only proposed from Humber College to Finch Station?

In 2007, the City of Toronto prposed it to Finch Station (Yonge). However when the province in 2009 promiesd to fully fund it, and complete it by 2013, they extended the line a further 7 km (or so) east on Finch to Don Mills Road, and then south to Don Mills station at Sheppard. See this and this Ontario press releases.

In their June 2009 Benefit Case Analysis Metrolinx demonstrated this was the best option - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...enefitscases/Benefits_Case-Sheppard-Finch.pdf (note, I'm not saying they didn't cook it).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Agreed. If you were going for vote buying with transit projects, RER is a much better investment (politically speaking, but also in terms of planning). It provides the same benefits as a subway, but you can hit a lot more ridings with the same amount of money. With ~$3 billion in your pocket, you can hit up a heck of a lot more GO stations touting the benefits of RER than you can hitting up a couple subway stations in Scarborough talking about a Sheppard Subway.

RER isn't just a good political investment, it's also an incredibly good economic investment as well. The cost/benefit ratio of RER is huge; probably the highest of any transit project in the province.

 

[Adjei]

In 2007, the City of Toronto prposed it to Finch Station (Yonge). However when the province in 2009 promiesd to fully fund it, and complete it by 2013, they extended the line a further 7 km (or so) east on Finch to Don Mills Road, and then south to Don Mills station at Sheppard. See this and this Ontario press releases.

In their June 2009 Benefit Case Analysis Metrolinx demonstrated this was the best option - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...enefitscases/Benefits_Case-Sheppard-Finch.pdf (note, I'm not saying they didn't cook it).

Interesting! I didn't know that. I find it funny how in one of the links you provided it states that to go from Humber College to Don Mills is $1.2 billion and with the announcement this week, just going from Humber College to Keele and Finch is $1.2 billion. Also construction was only 3 years but for a shorter line, it's now 4 years.

 

[Adjei]

RER isn't just a good political investment, it's also an incredibly good economic investment as well. The cost/benefit ratio of RER is huge; probably the highest of any transit project in the province.

This is why I don't blame the province for focusing most of their attention and funding on it. You get more bang for your buck and it is more transformational for the region as a whole.

 

[ehlow]

And that explains why the DRL is always pushed off.

RER isn't just a good political investment, it's also an incredibly good economic investment as well. The cost/benefit ratio of RER is huge; probably the highest of any transit project in the province.

If we're looking at it politically, the Ontario government has to spread the infrastructure spending around the entire province, and they are. As soon as you spend more in one place others complain (like Waterloo currently complaining that they paid 100% of Mississauga's LRT).

I'm speculating that that's the main strategy behind the recent transit projects, they've covered pretty much all the major urban areas, Toronto, York, Mississauga/Peel, Kitchener Waterloo, Ottawa, and they're trying to cover Hamilton.

When looking at Toronto and deciding what project to proceed with, the only projects ready are Yonge North, Finch W LRT, and Sheppard E LRT. Neither the Scarborough subway or any DRL proposal is ready to move forward. So they choose Finch.

I agree, RER is both good politically and in terms of making regional transit much better. Others do complain about the GTHA getting money, however, the GTHA is more than half the population of Ontario so is extremely valuable politically.

 

[nfitz]

When looking at Toronto and deciding what project to proceed with, the only projects ready are Yonge North, Finch W LRT, and Sheppard E LRT. Neither the Scarborough subway or any DRL proposal is ready to move forward. So they choose Finch.

That would be fine, if they hadn't already committed to both Finch AND Sheppard. Back in 2009, Toronto got X amount of LRT, and Mississauga got BRT. Toronto's amount of LRT keeps shrinking. But now Misssissauga gets more. Not right.

 

[Adjei]

That would be fine, if they hadn't already committed to both Finch AND Sheppard. Back in 2009, Toronto got X amount of LRT, and Mississauga got BRT. Toronto's amount of LRT keeps shrinking. But now Misssissauga gets more. Not right.

The province only funded part of the Mississauga BRT, the feds and Mississauga are also contributing. The Province is funding Eglinton for over 5 billion plus and Finch at 1.2 billion. They are also contributing the most money for the Scarborough subway. As for the DRL, it is not ready to built, they don't even a route for it yet and it is now being studied and for it to be effective the full route has to be built which is close to 8 billion. The City of Toronto under John Tory has also decided to push Smartrack and you hardly even see anyone from the city mentioning the DRL now, it's all about Smartrack.

 

[ehlow]

The province only funded part of the Mississauga BRT, the feds and Mississauga are also contributing. The Province is funding Eglinton for over 5 billion plus and Finch at 1.2 billion. They are also contributing the most money for the Scarborough subway. As for the DRL, it is not ready to built, they don't even a route for it yet and it is now being studied and for it to be effective the full route has to be built which is close to 8 billion. The City of Toronto under John Tory has also decided to push Smartrack and you hardly even see anyone from the city mentioning the DRL now, it's all about Smartrack.

Yes. The relief line study seems to take an very, very long time too. It's already been more than a year and it looks like they won't determine the route until early next year.

http://reliefline.ca/the-project/the-process

I wonder.. how many people do they have working on this? And what do they do day to day? We only get one, maybe two updates a year.

 

[nfitz]

The province only funded part of the Mississauga BRT, the feds and Mississauga are also contributing.

Similar to the Spadina subway. The province isn't even meeting their original Spadina commitment blaming a poor return on the trust fund they set up!

The Province is funding Eglinton for over 5 billion plus and Finch at 1.2 billion.

And yet still are only building 31 km of the 54 km they promised on those 2 routes.

They are also contributing the most money for the Scarborough subway.

Which is the same amount the committed to in 2009. Back then though it was supposed to buy a lot more LRT to a lot more people than km of subway being delived.

As for the DRL, it is not ready to built, they don't even a route for it yet and it is now being studied and for it to be effective the full route has to be built which is close to 8 billion. The City of Toronto under John Tory has also decided to push Smartrack and you hardly even see anyone from the city mentioning the DRL now, it's all about Smartrack.

Which should have been called DumbTrack. Metrolinx had already committed to the every 15 minute service on much of that route, and the new piece Tory added was dropped from the Eglinton LRT with part of it having less than 1,000 riders per hour at peak.

If the province would stick to the commitments they had already made and not back John Tory's DumbTrack ideas, we'd be a lot further ahead than we are. The government needs to keep it's promises. I'm not sure why so many are so eager to let them off the hook and celebrate further delay on the Finch LRT.

 

[lead82]

Agreed that all these delays reduces how much transit gets built for the money allocated. Each time there is a delay the risks grow the plans will change with a change in government as new people come up with new ideas without completing previous ideas.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What bout 2011, 2007, 2003?

Promising some Sheppard Subway is not going to make you win over Toronto voters..

Agreed. If you were going for vote buying with transit projects, RER is a much better investment (politically speaking, but also in terms of planning). It provides the same benefits as a subway, but you can hit a lot more ridings with the same amount of money. With ~$3 billion in your pocket, you can hit up a heck of a lot more GO stations touting the benefits of RER than you can hitting up a couple subway stations in Scarborough talking about a Sheppard Subway.

First two wern't transit elections, 2011 was about Jobs and the SRT. Which the Liberals collapsed on like a house of cards. This always never ends at one. This will be an issue in 3 years and the Liberals will collapse again because past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sorry, I was trying to reply to a few posts and deleted the wrong stuff.



If a subway is going from Don Mills to STC and then Kennedy, would it not make more sense to make STC the hub. The length of subway and number of stations would be the exact same. STC would be a hub for many GO buses. The Markham GO line intersects both lines.

And that explains why the DRL is always pushed off.

Agreed. And the terminal is there already at STC, we have to build a new one at McCowan Sheppard or extend the Sheppard line to Markham Road. Put it at STC.

 

[Adjei]

First two wern't transit elections, 2011 was about Jobs and the SRT. Which the Liberals collapsed on like a house of cards. This always never ends at one. This will be an issue in 3 years and the Liberals will collapse again because past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior.

The SRT issue wasn't even relevant in the 2011 election. It only became an issue when the Liberals decided to support for the byelection in 2013. A byelection is different from a more general election and you have more local issues which become more relevant. The Liberals didn't have the Sheppard subway in their 2014 election platform but yet they still won all those Scarborough seats. People are more concerned in general elections with the economy and jobs than about subways.

Even if the Liberals do support it, they could always say they will only contribute the amount that they will be contributing for the LRT and leave the city to find the rest of the money like exactly what happened with the Scarborough RT.