Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[Fred.S]

Makes me wonder how much an unpowered middle unit unit would cost, if the line ever goes into into full-time 3-car operation. Basically remove the motors and cab(s), maybe half the cost? Wishful thinking...

The 45-ish metre variants, or Alstom LRVs looking better now.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Makes me wonder how much an unpowered middle unit unit would cost, if the line ever goes into into full-time 3-car operation. Basically remove the motors and cab(s), maybe half the cost? Wishful thinking...

The 45-ish metre variants, or Alstom LRVs looking better now.

They had a wonderful opportunity to modify their order to 7-module Flexities when they were negotiating with Bombardier but instead they stuck with 5-module Flexities

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Couldn't they just add the modules later if it was really necessary? It would mean the trains extend past the ends of the platform, but Ottawa is doing this (98m trains and 90m platforms). As long as all the doors are on the platform it still works. You couldn't do all 3 cars as 7 module, but you could definitely do a 5+7+5...

 

[KevinT]

but you could definitely do a 5+7+5...

Ooo, and build the 7 module without cabs!

 

[nfitz]

They had a wonderful opportunity to modify their order to 7-module Flexities when they were negotiating with Bombardier but instead they stuck with 5-module Flexities

I suspect Bombardier already had them by the balls, after their disastrous legal bad-faith manoeuvres.

They are lucky that the renegotiation will get them all in time for Eglinton, rather than strung out more for Finch West and Sheppard East. Given that Metrolinx said they were doing this because Bombardier couldn't deliver Eglinton in time, it seems odd to me that they've negotiated for all the Bombardier units to go on Eglinton, rather than using them in the original design for Finch and Sheppard, etc.

Though presumably the Mount Dennis yard design makes a change difficult at this point. Which presumably means that Bombardier will get the Sheppard East, Eglinton East, and Eglinton West orders as well. While Alstom would presumably get Hamilton, Mississauga, and the Finch West extensions to Pearson and Yonge.

 

[Voltz]

I suspect Bombardier already had them by the balls, after their disastrous legal bad-faith manoeuvres.

They are lucky that the renegotiation will get them all in time for Eglinton, rather than strung out more for Finch West and Sheppard East. Given that Metrolinx said they were doing this because Bombardier couldn't deliver Eglinton in time, it seems odd to me that they've negotiated for all the Bombardier units to go on Eglinton, rather than using them in the original design for Finch and Sheppard, etc.

Though presumably the Mount Dennis yard design makes a change difficult at this point. Which presumably means that Bombardier will get the Sheppard East, Eglinton East, and Eglinton West orders as well. While Alstom would presumably get Hamilton, Mississauga, and the Finch West extensions to Pearson and Yonge.

Anne Marie Atkins mentioned that Sheppard would get Alstom, who I hope is aware of the slim chance of it ever getting built.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Anne Marie Atkins mentioned that Sheppard would get Alstom, who I hope is aware of the slim chance of it ever getting built.

It would probably save money now to start planning the one-stop subway extension from Don Mills to Scarborough town center and just skip the LRT that people will demand get replaced in 30 years in favour of "subway,subway,subways". A smarter idea would to use a high floor LRT and not the Citadis on the Sheppard LRT and convert the existing Line 4 to make a continuous line.

 

[adrianaliu]

It would probably save money now to start planning the one-stop subway extension from Don Mills to Scarborough town center and just skip the LRT that people will demand get replaced in 30 years in favour of "subway,subway,subways". A smarter idea would to use a high floor LRT and not the Citadis on the Sheppard LRT and convert the existing Line 4 to make a continuous line.

i'd build it as high floor with ttc gauge tracks so yeah u can convert the subway to lrt, then extend it to sheppard west on the surface, then connect it to wilson yard. i don't know if that would work but it is the same gauge

 

[nfitz]

Anne Marie Atkins mentioned that Sheppard would get Alstom, who I hope is aware of the slim chance of it ever getting built.

We'll see how fond everyone is of that option when they start tendering Sheppard (or whatever gets built next in Toronto). Alstom - like any sports team - looks like champions before the season starts.

And how would that work? If they do run through service on Eglinton/Eglinton East - and with Eglinton West also planned (which surely must be through service), then the plan always was that Eglinton would need two yards, with support from the yard at the eat end of Sheppard West. I'd think it would be pointless supporting two very different vehicles out of one yard.

 

[smallspy]

I'd think it would be pointless supporting two very different vehicles out of one yard.

If the services are connected, I don't see an issue with it. Heavy maintenance on the Bombardier cars could still be done at Mount Dennis, with storage, cleaning and running repairs being done at Sheppard East. Kind of how the Flexities are being maintained on the legacy network.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, you are probably right. Though if I remember the contractual arrangement, is that winning consortium (i.e. Bombardier) would be doing the maintenance at Mount Dennis, and unionized TTC staff will be driving and controlling the car operation. If Alstom maintenance is done on Sheppard, and Flexity maintenance is done at Mount Dennis, I can guess right now that somehow at the end of the day, the Alstom cars will be at Mount Dennis, and the Bombardier cars will be the other end.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Makes me wonder how much an unpowered middle unit unit would cost, if the line ever goes into into full-time 3-car operation.

It would still have to be powered it just woudn't need controls inside of it.

 

[Steve X]

Yes, you are probably right. Though if I remember the contractual arrangement, is that winning consortium (i.e. Bombardier) would be doing the maintenance at Mount Dennis, and unionized TTC staff will be driving and controlling the car operation. If Alstom maintenance is done on Sheppard, and Flexity maintenance is done at Mount Dennis, I can guess right now that somehow at the end of the day, the Alstom cars will be at Mount Dennis, and the Bombardier cars will be the other end.

They better sort this out soon. BBD's signal system won the contract and will have to fit in one of the fleet. Worst case is spending extras and have it install on both fleets but one of them would be wasted.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

While watching a video of a powered ION train being tested it occured to me there will likely be at least one major difference between the Metrolinx and the Ottawa Citadis (Citadii?) trains. The signature TTC blue marker lights to indicate an accessible vehicle. Since the ION vehicles were original spec'd for Toronto, they have them.

 

[Megaton327]

While watching a video of a powered ION train being tested it occured to me there will likely be at least one major difference between the Metrolinx and the Ottawa Citadis (Citadii?) trains. The signature TTC blue marker lights to indicate an accessible vehicle. Since the ION vehicles were original spec'd for Toronto, they have them.

In every other Ontario city getting an LRT there is no point in making the distinction as every LRV will be accessible, they do not have any legacy streetcars or non-accessible LRVs at all.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that Ottawa and KW don't have any non-accessible transit vehicles period, all of their buses should be low-floor by now. Toronto is probably one of only major Ontario cities left, if not the only one, with even a single non-accessible surface transit vehicle remaining.