Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[W. K. Lis]

On LRT routes like St Clair are okay but in legacy routes the current cars are long enough, they take too long to clear intersections and they are so long that the stops need to be further apart.

Not too long in length at all. I remember the PCC multi-unit streetcar trains that ran on Bloor Street & Danforth Avenue, and later Queen Street. One Flexity Outlook streetcar is equal to a two car multi-unit PCC streetcar train.

They are also equal in length to a Peter Witt streetcar AND trailer train used on Yonge Street.

 

[Bordercollie]

Not too long in length at all. I remember the PCC multi-unit streetcar trains that ran on Bloor Street & Danforth Avenue, and later Queen Street. One Flexity Outlook streetcar is equal to a two car multi-unit PCC streetcar train.

They are also equal in length to a Peter Witt streetcar AND trailer train used on Yonge Street.

Did that MU configuration require 2 staff members? Otherwise who collects the fare in the second car? Honour system?

Otherwise it would be no different than having them run separate of the same amount of crews are required.

 

[drum118]

Did that MU configuration require 2 staff members? Otherwise who collects the fare in the second car? Honour system?

Otherwise it would be no different than having them run separate of the same amount of crews are required.

2 operators per mu collecting fares

 

[T3G]

Did that MU configuration require 2 staff members? Otherwise who collects the fare in the second car? Honour system?

Otherwise it would be no different than having them run separate of the same amount of crews are required.

The reason they did is because it was more efficient to have one unit pass through an intersection, rather than two separate cars.

 

[W. K. Lis]

2 operators per mu collecting fares

The reason they did is because it was more efficient to have one unit pass through an intersection, rather than two separate cars.

With the Peter Witt streetcar and trailer, it was a 3-person operation. Driver in the lead streetcar, and a conductor each in the lead streetcar (pay as you pass, exit centre doors) and trailer

.

 

[drum118]

Again you keep mentioning that the TTC will use longer cars in the future, but this is simply not the case. They already studied it back when they were procuring the LRVs and there were numerous intersections, streetcar terminals, and stops that would not be able to accommodate this.

And they arent going to operate a mix fleet of varying length LRVs as that would just cause unnecessary complications operationally.

Now I have my videos up loaded you can see Amsterdam and Zurich run 5 different length as well different manufactures.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Now I have my videos up loaded you can see Amsterdam and Zurich run 5 different length as well different manufactures.

So what big deal other places do it that doesn't mean that the TTC either wants to or has to do it. We can point to things everywhere else in the world until we are blue in the face and at the end of the day it's up to the TTC and the board to decide on how they operate their system.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[superelevation]

So what big deal other places do it that doesn't mean that the TTC either wants to or has to do it. We can point to things everywhere else in the world until we are blue in the face and at the end of the day it's up to the TTC and the board to decide on how they operate their system.

If the TTC does it its right! Nothing to learn from those foreigners!

 

[rbt]

If the TTC does it its right! Nothing to learn from those foreigners!

Both of those cities also have per-passenger operating costs considerably higher than the TTC. Worth noting that not all transit agencies categorize capital/operating expenses in the same way, and TTC is adept at converting operating costs into capital costs.

 

[T3G]

Both of those cities also have per-passenger operating costs considerably higher than the TTC. Worth noting that not all transit agencies categorize capital/operating expenses in the same way, and TTC is adept at converting operating costs into capital costs.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that if the costs of running said transit system are indeed higher, it's not going to be based on the length of rolling stock, though.

 

[trtcttc]

I think the primary reason a lot of European transit operators have many different types of rolling stock is because they do their fleet replacement in stages (not the case in Toronto as they replaced all CLRV in one go). There's also many different production lines and manufacturers in Europe, so they have more option. Especially since Flexities and Citadis have production lines in Ontario, I highly doubt the government would source Siemens or CAF like Calgary did.

 

[trtcttc]

Somewhat related:

The mockup of Calgary’s new Green Line LRVs being manufactured by CAF has been unveiled.

Mock low-floor Green Line LRV unveiled by Calgary Transit - LiveWire Calgary

Calgarians get their first look at the new low-floor LRT model that will be used on the $5.5 billion Green Line when it opens. One year ago, the Green Line Board and the City of Calgary awarded a contract for 28 light-rail vehicles (LRV) to Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles (CAF). On...

livewirecalgary.com

These cars are 100% low floor like the Flexity Freedom and Citadis Spirit. The interior layout looks quite similar to the Flexity Freedom. Calgary’s LRVs will be 40 metres long.

Also noticed these trains have 8 sets of doors (6 double doors and 2 single doors) for a 42m train. The Flexities are 30m long with only 4 doors (2 double, 2 single). Wish the Flexities would've had two double doors instead of the 1 since the train always waits for people to get on/off during rush hour

 

[drum118]

Also noticed these trains have 8 sets of doors (6 double doors and 2 single doors) for a 42m train. The Flexities are 30m long with only 4 doors (2 double, 2 single). Wish the Flexities would've had two double doors instead of the 1 since the train always waits for people to get on/off during rush hour

Most systems have more doors per vehicle type than we do.

40' buses have mostly 3 doors while the 60's have 4, but you will see the standard 2 and 3 doors buses there also even in the same fleet.

Modern LRV's have single doors at each end like TTC, but more double doors than we do, depending on the length as well the section style. Then, a number of systems have doors on both sides.

Not all systems have TTC model as they have larger radius that allows longer sections as well less sections for the same length.

All systems have the same issues as TTC for riders getting on/off based on ridership and stops. Its something you will have to live with. Big different between TTC and the World, TTC opens the doors in place of riders pushing the button to do so for getting on/off the car.

Some systems only allow you to enter by one or 2 single door and leave by the double doors only. Amsterdam is the only system I been on where there is a fare collector in the centre area where you can pay your fare if you don't have a smart card. My last trip saw the same thing with the driver collecting fares as well compared to this trip as well having gates at various door to allow riders off only. A few of those cars still exist today and will have the gates remove shortly. This depends on the type of LRV you are getting on since the older models are not setup that way.

The Stadler car in London UK has an extra single door next to the driver who compartment is smaller than other LRV's that allows that extra door to be added.

 

[trtcttc]

Most systems have more doors per vehicle type than we do.

40' buses have mostly 3 doors while the 60's have 4, but you will see the standard 2 and 3 doors buses there also even in the same fleet.

Modern LRV's have single doors at each end like TTC, but more double doors than we do, depending on the length as well the section style. Then, a number of systems have doors on both sides.

Not all systems have TTC model as they have larger radius that allows longer sections as well less sections for the same length.

All systems have the same issues as TTC for riders getting on/off based on ridership and stops. Its something you will have to live with. Big different between TTC and the World, TTC opens the doors in place of riders pushing the button to do so for getting on/off the car.

Some systems only allow you to enter by one or 2 single door and leave by the double doors only. Amsterdam is the only system I been on where there is a fare collector in the centre area where you can pay your fare if you don't have a smart card. My last trip saw the same thing with the driver collecting fares as well compared to this trip as well having gates at various door to allow riders off only. A few of those cars still exist today and will have the gates remove shortly. This depends on the type of LRV you are getting on since the older models are not setup that way.

The Stadler car in London UK has an extra single door next to the driver who compartment is smaller than other LRV's that allows that extra door to be added.

Recognize that boarding will always take time but the TTC cars definitely could use another set.
Also I think Amsterdam is moving away from that. They still had it on their old Siemens but the new CAF trains they don’t have collector or gates and all door boarding/alighting.