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Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

Directional running starts south of Parry Sound where the tracks converge and continues to near Sudbury where the track converge again. Westbound trains use CPKC; that's why Parry Sound has two stations depending on the direction of Canadian.
So, south of it is the Bala sub, of which south of Washago, the Northlander and Canadian will share the same tracks.
 
Well, for CN, north of it is the Bala sub as well (Toronto to Capreol) but, yes, from Washago south, both will use the same tracks, as before.
Point was that this is shared between Via and ONR for passenger service and if double tracking it would benefit them, that they should share the costs.
 
Point was that this is shared between Via and ONR for passenger service and if double tracking it would benefit them, that they should share the costs.
As @Urban Sky said, VIA only has 2 trains a week that use this track, and this segment represents a minuscule portion of the route, so the benefit of double tracking it would be insignificant. Besides, people don’t do a land cruse because it’s fast. Being slow is a desirable feature.

Even for ONR, they only have daily service, and at represents only a small portion of the entire route, so the value for money isn’t there. Should ONR decide to run 10 trains a day, then maybe it might be worth the cost, but that’s not going to happen anytime in our lifetimes.
 
As @Urban Sky said, VIA only has 2 trains a week that use this track, and this segment represents a minuscule portion of the route, so the benefit of double tracking it would be insignificant.

Even for ONR, they only have daily service, and at represents only a small portion of the entire route, so the value for money isn’t there. Should ONR decide to run 10 trains a day, then maybe it might be worth the cost, but that’s not going to happen anytime in our lifetimes.
If ONR is running 10trains a day, I will be living on Mars.
... and wanting a interplanetary railway...
 
Glad you have at least some sense of reality.
The reality is there is no demand for more than 1 a day Northlander. I don't think I have ever suggested more than that.
For the Bala Sub between Union and Washago, if the funding were there, we could see a daily Canadian,plus a several time a day GO train if the demand reaches that point. This will put pressure on that sub for more slots. There will come a point where double tracking that section would be the best way to ensure on time passenger service without hampering freight operations. We are not there yet.. We may never get there. If we get there, who should pay for it? My thinking is a mix of all who use it. That would mean CN, the province and the federal governments should all pay for it.
.... unless you want to go down the rabbit hole that is reconnecting the Newmarket Sub.....
 
We are not there yet.. We may never get there.

Now you are starting to make sense.

You are dreaming about an investment of hundreds of millions of dollars (billions even) to support services that pull in much smaller amounts of revenue and require operating subsidies as well as capital for equipment. And attract very small absolute numbers of riders.

Even our governments don't work that way.

- Paul
 
Maybe we should rename this thread into „100 passenger rail services Micheal from Sudbury wants to see restored before he moves to Mars (and dreams about intergalactic railways)“…?
I think that you may need to add a couple of zeros to that number....
 
Now you are starting to make sense.

You are dreaming about an investment of hundreds of millions of dollars (billions even) to support services that pull in much smaller amounts of revenue and require operating subsidies as well as capital for equipment. And attract very small absolute numbers of riders.

Even our governments don't work that way.

- Paul

When the Northlander was cancelled in 2012, most people just accepted that it will never return.
An investment of $75 million from the province of ON will be spent to return it roughly 14 years after it was shut down. Right there is almost $100 million...That is just 1 line. The government does work that way.
The return of the Northlander was a pipe dream when it shut down.It still kinda is as it is not yet running.
Other pipe dreams are extending GO services up the Bala sub. However, with the cost of housing, people will move further north and they will demand the government transport them.
Via will be replacing its long distance fleet.When that happens, who really knows if it will also include enough rolling stock to expand existing service or add new services. Before that happens, maybe they decide to replace the RDCs with the HEP cars. Maybe they decide to start the service in Toronto instead of Sudbury to make maintenance easier and to potentially capitalize on possible ridership..
And then there is the question of what could happen if the largest city in Northern ON puts pressure on the province to provide rail transportation to it.Remember, people have said that 4 buses a day is the maximum they want to run before a train service is viable on leased lines. If a 4th bus gets added to the schedule, then maybe they will look at a train.

Will it happen? Who knows.
Is it possible?Yes. The Northlander returning proves the possibility of it.All that is left is the political climate for it.

Maybe we should rename this thread into „100 passenger rail services Micheal from Sudbury wants to see restored before he moves to Mars (and dreams about intergalactic railways)“…?
I don't think I have 100 different services that I'd like to see restored. But, talking about the challenges of bringing them back, and the challenges on existing infrastructure if they come back is a good thing, right? In the past 7 years on this forum,I have learned a lot about the challenges of bringing anything back.
 
And then there is the question of what could happen if the largest city in Northern ON puts pressure on the province to provide rail transportation to it.Remember, people have said that 4 buses a day is the maximum they want to run before a train service is viable on leased lines. If a 4th bus gets added to the schedule, then maybe they will look at a train.
Are you aware of any municipal or regional (small 'r') lobby effort or even spoken 'druthers by an elected official from Sudbury calling for Toronto-Sudbury rail service? I can't recall hearing of any.

I'll bet there is some ONR staffer somewhere regretting they ever said the '4 bus rule'. I doubt it is corporate or government policy and it would be interesting to know the basis for it. Who is the 'they' that will look at adding train? That's certainly not within ONTC's mandate or ability. As I mentioned before, you want a train? Pester your MPP. I'm sure France will pick up the torch; she seems to like windmills.
 
Are you aware of any municipal or regional (small 'r') lobby effort or even spoken 'druthers by an elected official from Sudbury calling for Toronto-Sudbury rail service? I can't recall hearing of any.

They are not as vocal as the group that was wanting the return of the Northlander, but there are out there. My guess is their voices will get louder when the Northland has returned.

I'll bet there is some ONR staffer somewhere regretting they ever said the '4 bus rule'.

I'd bet you are right. I doubt it is a hard rule, but more of a math equation. The thing that makes me think more is what cost savings are there between 4 buses and 1 or 2 buses and 1 train.

I doubt it is corporate or government policy and it would be interesting to know the basis for it. Who is the 'they' that will look at adding train? That's certainly not within ONTC's mandate or ability. As I mentioned before, you want a train? Pester your MPP. I'm sure France will pick up the torch; she seems to like windmills.
.. she isn't the one of the city....
 

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