King West to be the next Yorkville? TIFF to make it go upscale?

[alklay]

And King Street has little space for retail such as the window filled shops up in Yorkville.

People will go where the shopping is, whether they stay at the Ritz or the Prince hotel. 5th Ave in NY stayed right where it was, despite hotels being built everywhere and neighbourhoods changing. Yorkville and Bloor are not going to be replaced any time soon.

And the effect of the Lightbox will not be as great as is being contemplated by some here. Most of the films of the festival will be in other theatres across the city (in fact, there will be more shown at Yonge-Dundas square than this spot). During the other 50 weeks of the year, the Lightbox will be showing 1, maybe more, films in the evening, to mostly small crowds.

It will add much vitality to an area already alive. But Holts is not moving across the street because of it.

 

[grey]

Agreed. Also, I think that using designer clothing labels as the measure of neighbourhood affluence and status is short-sighted. King West has already become pretty high-end in its own way. I think the fact that Design Within Reach set up shop here says a lot, but some people will ignore the street for what it is until Gucci moves in

 

[khris]

How many more times must we have this King W. VS Yorkville discussion? lol

 

[Tewder]

It's okay to have more than one upscale shopping area. The tone of Yorkville is different than King West. There's a market for both.

 

[caltrane74]

It's okay to have more than one upscale shopping area. The tone of Yorkville is different than King West. There's a market for both.

Forsure there is!

And with all the redevelopment happening in the Entertainment District, and the luxury hotels, im sure some interesting new stores might pop up.. I mean look at Brooks brothers opened a store and not in Yorkville... so they opened it up in the Financial district, who's to say other high end stores, American, European or whatever don't decide they might get a better bang for the high end buck on King Street now, rather than on Bloor Street. And there is the intangible of having the Film Festival Centre right there, with all the big stars right there, going to screenings, restaraunts and such. It might just be a no brainer to due your basic test marketing right here for the Canadian market.

 

[Tewder]

Yes, and if I were Brooks Brothers I'd probably open in the financial district too given the type of apparel they carry. I can see Yorkville and Yorkdale being places they would likely expand to anyways.

Also, I think we'll see edgier, more modern and more youthful upscale retail locating along King West, whether in clothing or furniture etc., with more classic and couture labels for Yorkville.

 

[Filip]

Well if we must have the argument of Yorkville vs King West, why can´t we say we can just have both?

New York, of course, has 5th Ave. Also, Prince st. in SoHo is choc full of designer labels just in smaller boutiques. Maybe one day we´ll have that too. I could see Holts building something down there, maybe to go in the base of a new condo, but it´ll be a while for sure.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Well if we must have the argument of Yorkville vs King West, why can´t we say we can just have both?

New York, of course, has 5th Ave. Also, Prince st. in SoHo is choc full of designer labels just in smaller boutiques. Maybe one day we´ll have that too. I could see Holts building something down there, maybe to go in the base of a new condo, but it´ll be a while for sure.

Apart from the two (really one) block stretch of Bloor between Avenue and Yonge, Toronto hasn't shown that it can support a street of upscale retail chains. That, and the fact that King street is more of a restaurant and theatre district (so the most appropriate NY analogy would be Hell's Kitchen), and I'd say that the chances of seeing a Holt's or any retail more upscale than a Jacobs is slim to none.

 

[taal]

Well if we must have the argument of Yorkville vs King West, why can´t we say we can just have both?

New York, of course, has 5th Ave. Also, Prince st. in SoHo is choc full of designer labels just in smaller boutiques. Maybe one day we´ll have that too. I could see Holts building something down there, maybe to go in the base of a new condo, but it´ll be a while for sure.

Let's see ... because this isn't NY no shit ...

We'll never have 2 very upscale streets, but nothings to stop us to have more Queen W / local, more cheap designs chains

 

[grey]

Let's see ... because this isn't NY no shit ...

We'll never have 2 very upscale streets, but nothings to stop us to have more Queen W / local, more cheap designs chains

We already have more than two. King St is already becoming pretty upscale on both the east and west ends. Avenue Road... there are others.

 

[Tewder]

We already have more than two. King St is already becoming pretty upscale on both the east and west ends. Avenue Road... there are others.

I agree. Do these people ever shop in Toronto?? Long stretches of Queen Street are pretty high-end too.

Apart from the two (really one) block stretch of Bloor between Avenue and Yonge, Toronto hasn't shown that it can support a street of upscale retail chains.

The high-end retail market has always been slightly different in Toronto, with more emphasis on boutiques and individual stores than chains, but this was probably more to do with overall Canadian market size and potential than any inability of Toronto to support them. Unlike in the USA with its massive, coast-to-coast density of population there is far less ability in Canada to achieve economies of scale, to establish dense supply networks and realize expansion potential, and all the more so for 'exclusive' brands. Fortunately international high-end retailers have recently discovered the Toronto market as a lucrative place to expand into, even during tough economic times, and this is almost unheard of in most other markets right now.

That, and the fact that King street is more of a restaurant and theatre district (so the most appropriate NY analogy would be Hell's Kitchen), and I'd say that the chances of seeing a Holt's or any retail more upscale than a Jacobs is slim to none.

I don't think that districts in Toronto are as delineated as that, and most areas tend to be a bit more mixed use. We're a far smaller city after all. I still think the delineation between Yorkville and King Street will come down to youthfullness/edginess vs establishment/oppulance so to speak than high-end vs low-end.

 

[grey]

I agree. Do these people ever shop in Toronto?? Long stretches of Queen Street are pretty high-end too.

They think that there is only one relevant and necessary qualification for a street to be considered "high end" and that's designer clothing labels for some reason. I don't know why. I don't think they understand luxury. I wonder how widespread this perception is?

You can forget about all the multi-million-dollar designer kitchens and, furniture and lighting, florists, and restaurants, because they aren't clothing labels, so they are not making these streets upscale in their eyes.

Even if their only qualification is clothing, there are shops like Got Style on King and more on Avenue, Davenport, etc. that are straight out of SoHo, so I don't think they know what they're talking about at all.

 

[taal]

Sorry guys ... no we don't ...

I'm not talking about high end, I'm talking about super high end that is yorkville.

We can't support two large areas like this, why should we anyway!! It's perfect the way it is.

Enough with the NY comparisons , of course they can support it.

 

[grey]

Klaus by Nienkamper, Ital Interiors, Montauk, Bulthaup, Kiosk, all super high-end. Top of the line, in fact, and none of them are in Yorkville.

 

[taal]

Yes but these stores are not new ...

All I'm saying is we won't have another densely concentrated strip of high end retailers. I'm not saying they won't exist in other locations at all ...

The point is, if another strip began to form, as dense as yorkville, it would probably spell the death of yorkville as high end stores move into the new high end - lower rent - location.

You might argue, why didn't Queen W lead to the death of the Eaton Center ... there a bunch of obious answers to that but the one in particular is most stores on Queen W are chains with 5+ locations in the GTA. Most of the high end stores in yorkville are not like this. They're not going to have a location in yorkville and 5 other locations.