King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[mdrejhon]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think a complete ban on cars would actually make King Street less vibrant. Just look at photos of Swanston Street in Melbourne before and after its conversion to a transit mall. The street feels a bit empty and lifeless now, unless a streetcar happens to be passing through. And many transit malls have a similar feel, including those in Vancouver, Portland, and Calgary. They are certainly not the cities' most vibrant spaces - the buzzing streetlife slowly seeps away over time.

I've seen really vibrant transit malls and really unvibrant ones.

I think a lot of it boils down to implementation as well. The installation of a high-quality green-paint cycle track, plus permitting delivery trucks during certain offpeak hours, would be a big help as well. And keeping transit frequency very high (streetcar always visible) helps. Toronto already has quite high transit frequencies on King already, which helps too -- and if clearing the cars actually allows more addition of streetcars to King, that could help even further too as well.

One has to also decide on the performance of transit through transit malls. Whether you're wanting to do curb-protected LRTs that keeps up speed, or a fully brick road level with curbs, forcing streetcars to go slower for pedestrian safety (Queens Quay). The design can also impact pedestrian-friendliness of the transit mall.

 

[ADRM]

I was driving along King Street this morning and found something somewhat encouraging...then disappointing.

The encouraging part...there was a police officer waiting on a side street to catch any person driving past a streetcar with its doors open. (a minor stop between Jamison and Dufferin)

The disappointing...
1. He did not stop a bike who blew through while people were unloading
2. The streetcar operator closed his back doors, then 1/2 closed his front doors and then paused for at least 5 seconds. The car that was first in line started driving slowly and the cop stopped him. It was almost (or was) entrapment.

Fully support what the officer is doing but the streetcar operator was just being a jerk. Don't try to entrap...there are enough people that disobey the law without needing to do this stuff.

That's not what entrapment is, and that's really not an accusation that should be thrown around lightly.

Frankly, here or anywhere, I'm all for substantially increased enforcement of any and all driver-related laws.

 

[salsa]

I wonder if this Transit Mall has any chance of surviving the 2018 election?

With Tory becoming Ford-lite, it has me worried.

Tory couldn't even stomach a reduction of car lanes for Eglinton Connects in the last election. Something which should never have been an election issue to begin with since it's not even coming to council this term, and yet he still felt the need to crap on it. So even if the transit mall vision survives the next election, it will be heavily tarnished by more of the same archaic arguments about how it will increase congestion, and that any delay for drivers is a threat to Toronto's global competitiveness. Then it will be scuttled by councillors who live nowhere near King Street, assuming that it even makes it through PWIC which is currently stacked with suburban councillors.

 

[muller877]

That's not what entrapment is, and that's really not an accusation that should be thrown around lightly.

Frankly, here or anywhere, I'm all for substantially increased enforcement of any and all driver-related laws.

I agree more enforcement...but entrapment is when you induce a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely to commit. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck....
(it may not meet the criminal law definition but certainly the dictionary definition)

 

[ADRM]

Yeah, I hear you, but there's a difference between inducing someone into committing an offense and simply waiting and watching for it to be committed.

 

[salsa]

London will ban cars from Oxford Street as part of a commitment by the new mayor to tackle air pollution. Cars are already banned during certain hours. The pedestrianisation will coincide with the opening of Crossrail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-36791485

 

[W. K. Lis]

London will ban cars from Oxford Street as part of a commitment by the new mayor to tackle air pollution. Cars are already banned during certain hours. The pedestrianisation will coincide with the opening of Crossrail.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-36791485


View attachment 81181

The suburban councillors must hate this.

 

[Johnny Au]

The suburban councillors must hate this.

They must hate Pokémon Go.

Speaking of which, that app is made available in Britain today.

 

[allabootmatt]

I doubt suburban councillors in London care one way or the other. Oxford St is already closed to private autos during the daytime; it's only buses and taxis. The number of people who drive into central London from any significant distance away is vanishingly small. Better suburban rail services (some are a real shambles) are far more of a priority for outer-London politicians.

The opposition is much likelier to come from the very wealthy residents and businesspeople in the neighborhood adjacent to Oxford St, since that's where the thousands of daily buses will have to travel now. Just about every east-west bus route in this part of London currently goes via the shopping drag, which creates actually a pretty dangerous situation since the number of pedestrians regularly overwhelms the sidewalks.

 

[TransitBart]

I wonder if this Transit Mall has any chance of surviving the 2018 election?

With Tory becoming Ford-lite, it has me worried.

Ford lite? You're comparing a grossly under educated, unsophisticated man with no preparation for the job with a man of Mr. Tory's calibre? I think there is a world of difference. If the comment is generated by his willingness to back a 'subway', boy that word has sure become a dirty one in Toronto.

The fact that anything is getting built at all after so many years of dysfunction is a true miracle. Would that his predecessor had the ability to get the stars aligned. We'd be four years further down the road.

This thread being a transit mall thread; that concept was anathema to the previous administration. That the debate exists at all is progress.

 

[mdrejhon]

London will ban cars from Oxford Street as part of a commitment by the new mayor to tackle air pollution. Cars are already banned during certain hours. The pedestrianisation will coincide with the opening of Crossrail.

OXFORD STREET! That's even bigger a disruption than closing YONGE & BLOOR simultaneously to cars. Heck, might as well simultaneously throw in BAY and CHURCH too.

London has a big problem with having very few bypass routes due to its old-fashioned street non-grid. There are no parallel diversion streets to Oxford, a major road. That's quite gutsy, even by Europe standards.

They are luckier than we are in having a huge subway (...ehm..."Underground"...) system, and the CrossRail will add more stations along Oxford.

 

[crs1026]

Ford lite? You're comparing a grossly under educated, unsophisticated man with no preparation for the job with a man of Mr. Tory's calibre? I think there is a world of difference. If the comment is generated by his willingness to back a 'subway', boy that word has sure become a dirty one in Toronto.

The fact that anything is getting built at all after so many years of dysfunction is a true miracle. Would that his predecessor had the ability to get the stars aligned. We'd be four years further down the road.

This thread being a transit mall thread; that concept was anathema to the previous administration. That the debate exists at all is progress.

Your point is valid in that Tory is not an undereducated, unsophisticated man with no preparation for the job of Mayor. But let's try perceptive, good Spidey-antenna political skills, averse to political risk, willing to backpedal or obfuscate on a position when the going gets tough, not going to stick his neck out for a good idea if it's going to get his suit grimy.

Tory does not have a dog in this race. It's not something he campaigned for or against. It's a (good) idea proposed by the Chief Planner, whose relationship with the Mayor has its ups and downs. He can sit back and watch the Chief Planner climb out on a limb and try to sell this one to a fairly unsupportive audience. And encourage her to climb out further on the limb as a way of showing his "support". If she goes down in flames, where's his skin in the game? Nada.

It's encouraging to see this plan come so far along, but I'm not confident Council will buy in. Suburban councillors will wonder why we are being so mean to motorists. And we've seen the power they hold. Is the Mayor cracking the whip on this one, in the same way he did on the Scarborough subway? I'm not seeing that.

- Paul

 

[TransitBart]

Your point is valid in that Tory is not an undereducated, unsophisticated man with no preparation for the job of Mayor. But let's try perceptive, good Spidey-antenna political skills, averse to political risk, willing to backpedal or obfuscate on a position when the going gets tough, not going to stick his neck out for a good idea if it's going to get his suit grimy.

Tory does not have a dog in this race. It's not something he campaigned for or against. It's a (good) idea proposed by the Chief Planner, whose relationship with the Mayor has its ups and downs. He can sit back and watch the Chief Planner climb out on a limb and try to sell this one to a fairly unsupportive audience. And encourage her to climb out further on the limb as a way of showing his "support". If she goes down in flames, where's his skin in the game? Nada.

It's encouraging to see this plan come so far along, but I'm not confident Council will buy in. Suburban councillors will wonder why we are being so mean to motorists. And we've seen the power they hold. Is the Mayor cracking the whip on this one, in the same way he did on the Scarborough subway? I'm not seeing that.

- Paul

The city government made this problem. That is; the dire transportation situation. Everything we do to motorists is 'mean' that is not underground. Sadly, a win in one place, comes at someone else's expense. This situation is going to persist until a large part of 'the plan' gets built out; which will give us some true alternatives to brutal long distance bus commutes in slow traffic. In my short time here, I see constant debate about what we can afford. Frankly, I can't see that we can't afford not to build it all. We are simply going to choke on our own success. That would be sad. This city is a great place to live, work, study and raise a family.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Ford lite? You're comparing a grossly under educated, unsophisticated man with no preparation for the job with a man of Mr. Tory's calibre? I think there is a world of difference. If the comment is generated by his willingness to back a 'subway', boy that word has sure become a dirty one in Toronto.

It has nothing to do with Tory's sophistication, and everything to do with his policies.

 

[TransitBart]

It has nothing to do with Tory's sophistication, and everything to do with his policies.

That is one view.

I don't see many similarities. I see things beginning to get done. And I see a focus on public transit which has been absent for a generation.