King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[steveintoronto]

On my way back from Spadina to Jameson I waited good 10 minutes for 504 A... in this time probably 4 or 5 near empty 504B's came by, before 504A arrived!

In theory, this should work much better. In practice, it is hell waiting for the 504A. I used to transfer from the 506 at Roncesvalles quite often, especially when avoiding the madness of the subway to get across town, but I've learned that if I've just missed a 504A northbound, it's faster to walk up to Bloor than wait.

For all the glory being heaped on the King Street Pilot, it's still a disaster at each end feeding or leaving it. It still needs work...a lot of work, and I see no effort on the part of the City to do what's necessary to get it there.

 

[drum118]

More shopping on King St. since transit pilot project started, survey suggests

 

[DSC]

I took 504 today first time in long time... The travel tie between bathurst and yonge is lovely - huge improvement over what it was year ago. But i absolutely HATE the 504A/B business.. On my way back from Spadina to Jameson I waited good 10 minutes for 504 A... in this time probably 4 or 5 near empty 504B's came by, before 504A arrived! There were at least other 15-20 people on King/Spadina stop waiting with me none of them got into 504B which means they were going past Dufferin. This is ridiculous and i absolutely hate it. (did i say I hate it?) It was cold and windy - i hate it. This split is plain STUPID. Thanks for reading.

While the TTCs operation & scheduling of the 504 A and 504 B may not be good (is not good!); the concept is certainly valid. Neither Broadview nor Dundas West station loops can properly accommodate more than one Flexity at a time so they needed to find a way to turn cars back elsewhere to avoid back-ups The passenger demand at both ends of the line (which now get less service) is also less than in the centre section (which gets more). Turning cars at Distillery and Dufferin may not be the best places but they are the only places with current loops. Complain about how the TTC actually operates the split but the split itself is really not a bad idea.

 

[nfitz]

Complain about how the TTC actually operates the split but the split itself is really not a bad idea.

Had 504B might not been coupled with both an huge service cut on most of the route outside the core, increased short-turns, a tighter schedule, and less recovery time at Broadview, then it would not have been a bad idea.

They had a decade to prepare both the Broadview and Dundas West loops to handle more than one 504 being able to be parked at the station at once. And they did sweet fudge all. THAT was the bad idea and 100% within TTC's control.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I took 504 today first time in long time... The travel tie between bathurst and yonge is lovely - huge improvement over what it was year ago. But i absolutely HATE the 504A/B business.. On my way back from Spadina to Jameson I waited good 10 minutes for 504 A... in this time probably 4 or 5 near empty 504B's came by, before 504A arrived! There were at least other 15-20 people on King/Spadina stop waiting with me none of them got into 504B which means they were going past Dufferin. This is ridiculous and i absolutely hate it. (did i say I hate it?) It was cold and windy - i hate it. This split is plain STUPID. Thanks for reading.

Notice this all of the time on Roncesvalles. Waiting 10-15 minutes on weekday/weekend midday is not common for 504A. Same thing in evenings all week. Don't know about 504B though, but several times waiting at Dufferin westbound, I see 4 or 5 504Bs and then 1 504A comes like 7 minutes later.

 

[steveintoronto]

Notice this all of the time on Roncesvalles. Waiting 10-15 minutes on weekday/weekend midday is not common for 504A. Same thing in evenings all week. Don't know about 504B though, but several times waiting at Dufferin westbound, I see 4 or 5 504Bs and then 1 504A comes like 7 minutes later.

The 504 used to be my 'route of choice' from Dundas West other than the subway to get me south east into the core. It's rarely so now unless one is waiting at the platform, then I'll take it. If I have to wait, I'll take the much more frequent 505 bus instead. And coming north on Roncesvalles if I transfer off the 506 at Roncy to get a serving of excellent Bigos (Polish Sauerkraut dish. I'm of British stock, but love Polish cooking) at Village Meat Products & Deli - Delis - 415 Roncesvalles Ave (Opposite the Revue Theatre, best price around for Bigos), then if I can't see a 504 coming, it's invariably faster to walk up to Bloor than wait at that corner.

But here's the thing: Dundas West Station is *still clogged for space* to berth the 504, such that I often look out my window to see what all the honking is about (beyond the already excessive amount) at Dundas and Bloor, and it's often because a 504 is having to sit on Dundas just south of Bloor with flashers on because there's already one idle at the platform in the station, and there isn't room for the second to park behind. And then traffic backs up south down Dundas, and the honking begins.

The Flexities haven't been a plus for Roncesvalles...

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

The 504 used to be my 'route of choice' from Dundas West other than the subway to get me south east into the core. It's rarely so now unless one is waiting at the platform, then I'll take it. If I have to wait, I'll take the much more frequent 505 bus instead. And coming north on Roncesvalles if I transfer off the 506 at Roncy to get a serving of excellent Bigos (Polish Sauerkraut dish. I'm of British stock, but love Polish cooking) at Village Meat Products & Deli - Delis - 415 Roncesvalles Ave (Opposite the Revue Theatre, best price around for Bigos), then if I can't see a 504 coming, it's invariably faster to walk up to Bloor than wait at that corner.

But here's the thing: Dundas West Station is *still clogged for space* to berth the 504, such that I often look out my window to see what all the honking is about (beyond the already excessive amount) at Dundas and Bloor, and it's often because a 504 is having to sit on Dundas just south of Bloor with flashers on because there's already one idle at the platform in the station, and there isn't room for the second to park behind. And then traffic backs up south down Dundas, and the honking begins.

The Flexities haven't been a plus for Roncesvalles...

Not to mention the work they have to do the fix the streetcar platforms up and down Roncesvalles, thanks to them being built prior to when the Flexity order ordered.

 

[steveintoronto]

Not to mention the work they have to do the fix the streetcar platforms up and down Roncesvalles, thanks to them being built prior to when the Flexity order ordered.

Not only as a transit stop, but also as a cycleway.

Whoever thought putting pylons at the corner of them on the street side, and yellow (suicide) strips across the ends (many of which have detached and left dangerous holes plugged by asphalt) should have a chain wrapped around their neck and the brakes applied.

They are also wheelchair inaccessible due to the ramp being unextendable. Even though I can't avoid doing so in many instances, cycling on Roncy is an iffy proposition. That being said, it's safer than Dundas, by an increment.

But the streetcar service along Roncy has become very poor. I see only two branches for the 504 on the map...so where do the 504As disappear to? And when they do appear, at least in peak, they're in bunches.

Plus ça change...

 

[JasonParis]

While I'm largely a fan, in theory, of the 504A/B split, it's becoming quite obvious that there are too many streetcars in the interlined section and not enough on the outer section. I'm starting to see some crazy wait times at Lower River with 10-15 minutes being fairly standard and once it even said 28 minutes!

 

[nfitz]

While I'm largely a fan, in theory, of the 504A/B split, it's becoming quite obvious that there are too many streetcars in the interlined section and not enough on the outer section. I'm starting to see crazy waiting times at Lower River with regular wait times of 10-15 minutes and once even 28 minutes!

I've become quite used to taking a 504A to Sumach, seeing I've got a 10-15 minutes wait, and if it's not pouring rain, walking up Sumach to Gerrard to get to my 506. And I've kept track of where the next 504B is ... and confirmed I beat it to Broadview/Gerrard.

 

[steveintoronto]

While I'm largely a fan, in theory, of the 504A/B split, it's becoming quite obvious that there are too many streetcars in the interlined section and not enough on the outer section. I'm starting to see crazy waiting times at Lower River with regular wait times of 10-15 minutes and once even 28 minutes!

The concept makes total sense, the implementation fails it. That's both ends (your observation made by a number of posters, and ditto this end on Roncy). Wait times on Roncy mimic what you state. It's not even the wait times per-se, it's the *dependability* of those timings. It becomes a gamble of whether to wait for when it *should* be coming as opposed to when it actually does. And that's when people start to vote with their feet. They avoid using it, which fails the whole raison d'être.

 

[TransitBart]

While I'm largely a fan, in theory, of the 504A/B split, it's becoming quite obvious that there are too many streetcars in the interlined section and not enough on the outer section. I'm starting to see some crazy wait times at Lower River with 10-15 minutes being fairly standard and once it even said 28 minutes!

What if the route were divided at peak with 1/3 of vehicles on the original 504, 1/3 504A and 1/3 504B?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I wonder if 504 could benefit from having supervisors at Duffin and at Cherry and they could have cars either turn or continue on to the station depending on whether or not a streetcar has been to that destination in a reasonable amount of time?

 

[KevinT]

Vision is only the buses so far right? I wonder if that will fix the mess when it rolls out...

 

[steveintoronto]

Just watching this, @tayser might have a comment to make. For the first few minutes I've watched, two observations: Melbourne is a cross (at least in this northern sector of the city) of San Diego and Toronto to me.

Also: As reputed, Victoria drivers are a lot more sedate than Toronto drivers, and thank God for that. Toronto, and much of Ontario has become the home of manic driving. I'm told by Aussies that speeding is not just a legal offence in Oz, for many, it's a social one too. There will of course be exceptions.

Enjoy the vid! Palm trees! OMG, I'm getting a hit of Vit D just watching this.
4K- Melbourne Tram Driver View - 2018 Update Route 96 from St Kilda Beach