King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[felix123]

Much as I love Melbourne, I’m amazed at how slowly their trams run, even though they’re on their own rights of way.

While slow on Bourke/Swanston, where there are pedestrians continuously milling about, I find that they fly along their ROWs elsewhere - particularly tram route 96.

 

[drum118]

Waiting to cross King Yesterday at Yonge, a total of 7 cars cross Yonge in both direction illegal on one light.

Now if we could 10-20% of the fine recording these cars on video with plate number, we could make some good money doing so, with more money being brought in for the city.

 

[steveintoronto]

Much as I love Melbourne, I’m amazed at how slowly their trams run, even though they’re on their own rights of way.

5kph, and bells ringing and lights flashing. It's set by law. It's a massive point of debate in Melbourne and the State of Victoria. Pedestrians are a huge hazard, and King will have the same problem unless steps are taken to mitigate it.

Bicycles are banned on the central core section of Bourke. The difference is that Bourke is a destination, not an artery for cross-town traffic which King most certainly is, being the largest surface mover of passengers in Toronto, and third largest of any route, surpassed only by Line 1 and 2 of the subway.

Edit to Add:
Just fact checking my 'imposed speed limit of 5 kph', I have posted reference before in this string, but this showed Googling for it:

MYTH: TRAM PASSENGERS BENEFIT FROM FEWER TRAM STOPS
Myth: Tram passengers benefit from fewer tram stops
Fact: The main thing that makes Melbourne trams slow is lack of tram priority at intersections, not the fact that trams have to make stops. Very few tram stops in Melbourne are closer together than the optimum, so removing stops will on the whole be bad for passengers.
Just after Melbourne’s trams were privatised in 1999, some employees of the new private operator Yarra Trams suggested that tram stops in Melbourne were too close together, and that removing tram stops would help speed up people’s tram journeys. A review of all stops on Yarra Trams’ routes was announced, aimed at removing those that were ‘surplus’ according to the operator’s criteria. Press reports suggested that up to 50 per cent of all tram stops might disappear, while Yarra Trams produced glossy newsletters pushing the idea that fewer stops were good for passengers.

After the PTUA declared this the best strategy yet invented to drive passengers away from the tram system, the government intervened and stopped the cull of tram stops going ahead. However, the idea has refused to die. Careful observers have noted that the stops on the new tram extension from Mont Albert to Box Hill are around 40 per cent further apart than those on the old route just to the west – despite there being no difference in urban form or density between the old and new sections of the route. And Yarra Trams, in a reprise of its abortive 1999 exercise, recently pushed through the removal of one-third of the tram stops in parts of Collins Street, Flinders Street, Bourke Street and Victoria Parade.

Increasing the spacing between stops can help the operator run its vehicles faster – though only marginally, if at all – but it also makes passengers walk further. So all it does at best is procure an advantage to the operator at the expense of (some of) its passengers. A much better way to speed up trams is to give them proper priority at intersections and segregate them from car traffic. Higher frequencies can also help reduce delays due to overcrowding.
[...]

https://www.ptua.org.au/myths/nonstop/

Contentious...

 

[steveintoronto]

Waiting to cross King Yesterday at Yonge, a total of 7 cars cross Yonge in both direction illegal on one light.

Now if we could 10-20% of the fine recording these cars on video with plate number, we could make some good money doing so, with more money being brought in for the city.

I was down there too. Very few cars turned when required. Almost all drove straight through. One car even went through the intersection eastbound at Peter to pass a streetcar *on the left* (technically legal, I discussed this was a cop months back) but then stopped blocking traffic in both directions....

They vote, breed and influence us as well as have driving licences. We're in deep shid...

 

[W. K. Lis]

5kph, and bells ringing and lights flashing. It's set by law. It's a massive point of debate in Melbourne and the State of Victoria. Pedestrians are a huge hazard, and King will have the same problem unless steps are taken to mitigate it....

Having a 5 km/h rule on King Street for streetcars rolling through TIFF, and only streetcars (bicycles and pedestrians), would still provide much faster transit service than having to detour around the TIFF street closure.

 

[steveintoronto]

^It sure would, or like is done for parades down University, the police hold up the parade at intervals to allow the streetcars through. But TIFF want their 'cake' (a la Antoinette) and eat it too. They want to set up stalls and tents...which is what John Street is supposed to cater to.

 

[vic]

The TIFF Solution.

 

[mdrejhon]

Having a 5 km/h rule on King Street for streetcars rolling through TIFF, and only streetcars (bicycles and pedestrians), would still provide much faster transit service than having to detour around the TIFF street closure.

That's what they do with trams going through pedestrian transit malls.

Look at all the people crossing the street between moving trams.

Though this may be harder with denser crowds, but possibly a 5kph could work during weekdays (total detour closure on weekends only). Especially when using only 100% new streetcars with improved visibility for the driver.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

Was walking along King at lunch hour and came across this scene, which seemed to be the police enforcing the no-through restriction at University Avenue by issuing tickets:

That grey cop car is quite stealth.

 

[MetroMan]

Taxis are absolutely abusing their exception. 4 out of 5 cabs will gun it across an intersection at all hours of the day. They know that cops aren't heavily policing this and when they're around, they're obvious, parked further down the road, easily detectable if you know where to look. Today, I almost witnessed an accident between a cab and a streetcar. The taxi pulled next to the streetcar that had just started moving into the intersection. The cab sped ahead illegally through the intersection, almost hitting the jersey barrier, then cutting off the streetcar. The streetcar hit the breaks and laid it on the horn. No repercussions for the taxi driver since there were no cops around as usual.

I've been documenting taxis' abuse of the rules whenever I can. I'll be making a deputation at City Hall when the time comes to review the King Street Pilot. The City must revoke the taxi exemption and build the permanent King Street with no provision for taxis.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Instead of going the congestion fee like London, maybe get rid of car traffic entirely like Madrid.

Madrid Moves to Boot Car Traffic Out of Its City Center

See link.

The policy will be phased in starting this November. At first drivers passing though will just be warned. By February, drivers violating the policy will be fined €90 via camera enforcement.

Private motor vehicle through traffic will no longer be allowed on Madrid’s Área de Prioridad Residencial, with a phased implementation starting in November. Map: City of Madrid

Unfortunately, Toronto's automobile disciples, like the current crop of suburban Councillors, would not even consider it.

 

[UD2]

Instead of going the congestion fee like London, maybe get rid of car traffic entirely like Madrid.

Madrid Moves to Boot Car Traffic Out of Its City Center

See link.

Private motor vehicle through traffic will no longer be allowed on Madrid’s Área de Prioridad Residencial, with a phased implementation starting in November. Map: City of Madrid

Unfortunately, Toronto's automobile disciples, like the current crop of suburban Councillors, would not even consider it.

We can do it if we had the same transit network as Madrid. But we don’t.

So don’t blame the drivers, blame our decision making process.

 

[tripwire]

What about putting a dash cam on the streetcars and have the TTC send off infractions to the police to ticket/investigate?

 

[sixrings]

We can do it if we had the same transit network as Madrid. But we don’t.

So don’t blame the drivers, blame our decision making process.

It is never the car drivers fault. Never.

 

[DSC]

What about putting a dash cam on the streetcars and have the TTC send off infractions to the police to ticket/investigate?

Because the Province would not count that as evidence and the police would probably do nothing - just as they seldom act when vehicles pass streetcars with open doors.