gabe
Senior Member
BART is also similar to Washington DC subway system.
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Is the TTC (still) the most expensive transit system in North America?
- Thread starter M II A II R II K
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snowystar
New Member
Well, another way to compare is using the average fare paid per passenger regardless of mode, pass, zones, or distance travelled.
TTC had 500.2M riders in 2011, and total fare collected was 976.0M, for an average fare of $1.95 per rider.
Vancouver had 231.9M riders in 2011, and total fare collected was 433.3M, for an average fare of $1.87 per rider.
So in this case, TTC is still more expensive.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
The TTC may not have the most expensive fares of any North American system, but it is high and, more importantly, it's very inflexible.
In most other cities, a month pass is valid for 30 days from the day you first use the pass, a week pass is valid for 168 consecutive hours and a day pass for 24 consecutive hours. In Toronto, a day pass is only valid for the actual day you buy your pass; a week pass is valid for Monday through Sunday and a monthly Metropass is valid for the calendar month. Then there's the issue of transfers which are only valid for making one trip without ever using the same route again (i.e. it's not a time window of unlimited travel on any route as it is in most cities), with the exception of the 512. I think these things make using the TTC much more cumbersome than just high fares.
In most other cities, a month pass is valid for 30 days from the day you first use the pass, a week pass is valid for 168 consecutive hours and a day pass for 24 consecutive hours. In Toronto, a day pass is only valid for the actual day you buy your pass; a week pass is valid for Monday through Sunday and a monthly Metropass is valid for the calendar month. Then there's the issue of transfers which are only valid for making one trip without ever using the same route again (i.e. it's not a time window of unlimited travel on any route as it is in most cities), with the exception of the 512. I think these things make using the TTC much more cumbersome than just high fares.
rbt
Senior Member
And I'm good with that.
I'm annoyed that the report is very incomplete because they skipped anything but the most trivial pricing system. The trickiest included is Miami which charges different fees for rail/bus/ or both. They opted to use a trip that uses both rail and bus (so subway fare + transfer fee).
nfitz
Superstar
Most other cities? Like Brampton? Mississauga? Oshawa? Hamilton? Ottawa maybe? Kitchener? Guelph? St. Catharines? Any of those?
LNahid2000
Senior Member
I think he's talking about cities outside Ontario.
nfitz
Superstar
Which might imply it isn't TTC that is the issue here. Especially given the other cities are all on Presto already, so it should be easy.
It's certainly a direction people are going. Though obviously we we won't be seeing any changes until after Presto is fully implemented. So 2016 at the earliest.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Based on municipal boundaries, Mississauga is much more populous than many of the cities listed (including Atlanta and Boston!). Mississauga should be included.
bleu
Banned
Boston's system doesn't exactly stop at the city proper border does it?
bleu
Banned
don't forget the day passes can bring in up to 6 passengers, a number you simply can't track.
nfitz
Superstar
No, but you can estimate based on typical usage. Ridership is always going to be an estimate ... though the accuracy will improve as they start getting more and more data from Presto.
ShonTron
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Yeah, Johnny's comment was silly. Boston's system is the MBTA, or Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority. Its subways (three of them) serve not just Boston, but urban Cambridge, with two world-famous educational institutions, and several other inner ring muncipalities. It has the highest-ridership LRT (Green Line and Branches) in US (and second in North America, including Mexico, after Calgary). It has a larger commuter train network than GO Transit, with one line that exends into another state (Rhode Island). Its buses and ferries serve most of Eastern Mass.
Atlanta's system, is MARTA, the Metropolitan Atlanta Regional Transit Authority. MARTA has two subway lines and buses that extend throughout the city and two counties (Fulton and DeKalb).
Mississauga Transit is small beer in comparison to MBTA and even MARTA.
What next, compare San Francisco, because its city-county population is similar, to Mississauga? Ha! You will also notice that all cities listed operate a rail transit system as well as buses (Ottawa being the the odd man out, given how small its rail system is right now compared to the bus network.)
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bleu
Banned
The author explained below
■ In the 2011 comparison, much hay was made in the comments section over the cost of GTA suburban transit systems such as York VIVA vs the TTC. This post is about a big-city, rail-oriented, continent-wide transit comparison and no suburban bus systems were included, nor should they be. Suburban systems will often cost more than their peers in a large city due to issues of land use planning, density, car ownership, etc. They also tend to take their lead from their big-city cousins because they are subject to similar funding and expense parameters. And it is likely the suburban Toronto systems will eventually all be absorbed into a single GTA fare structure just as has happened dozens of other cities with regional transit authorities. So they are ignored here, disturbing as their high prices may be.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Thank you for clarifying. I based it on population within municipal boundaries, which yes, is silly, which I must admit. Of course the MBTA and the MARTA extend well out of their respective cities' boundaries. I meant to say that Mississauga's system is significantly underserved (in regards to its population) and with appropriate funding, MiWay would have the ridership levels of both the MBTA and the MARTA.
nfitz
Superstar
Good answer.
Though it's amusing that they ignore the higher fares on the BART than on TTC, likely because it's outside San Francisco itself ... but then also ignore that the City of Toronto is geographically much bigger than most US cities. Even for Vancouver they take the Zone 1 fares, even though you'd payer higher fares for shorter trips in Vancouver crossing into Zone 2, than many TTC trips. And no mention of those relatively short $4 Vancouver Skytrain fares to Burnaby. That new Evergreen Skytrain line will cost $5.50 a trip to and from downtown for those heading to work!