Ipsos Reid: Top ten issues for Torontonians

[dan e 1980]

I don't think immigrants should be paid to move to specific places. You want to hear howls of complaint, go ahead and do that. Federal immigration settlement payments are already screwy enough; no need to mess things up even further by turning people new to the country into a resource to be spread around like rations of peanut butter.

i never said to pay them. maybe fast track their citizenship or something.

Again, how is it dangerous?

As for areas that you call "totally white," are you possibly suggesting innate racism in those places because of white people? As for racial divides, people always find them when they are specifically looking for them, when they focus on race constantly, when they worry too much about too many whites or personal definitions of racial divides.

And as for worrying about money, maybe thinking about the people would be a better approach. Immigrants are not just some resource to be hoarded, distributed or attracted to generate revenue.

yes. there will always be some racism by some citizens who have been here for generations and consider newcomers a threat to their way of life. immigrants usually have it harder
in this country because they might not speak the language, be poor, be discriminated aginst, etc. when you bunch them up all in one spot you're putting people with hard lives all in one basket. note the situation described in maxy's post above. this is the danger. they don't really feel part of the country when they're isolated. factor in comments like stephen harpers from the west - "west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada; people who live in ghettos and are not integrated into Western Canadian society." - and then you see the danger of letting other areas being isolated from immigrants. they view the rest of the country as being un pure for some reason.


as for the money thing, didn't you notice that it was kinda sarcasm? a point to show what overprocetive moncultured areas are missing out on? sometimes you gotta explain things in dollars and cents for the tightasses.

 

[doady]

The situation in Paris is not really comparable to Canada. Paris is just one city, not a country, and even within Canadian cities there is not any segregation by income or race, no matter how hard NIMBYs may try to oppose denser (and therefore cheaper) housing developments, especially in Toronto.

I don't see any problem with immigrants located in a few select Canadian cities because there is little economic growth outside these cities. If you force immigrants to locate in an area with little economic oppurtunity, you will only make their lives even harder.

 

[bizorky]

^Exactly, and as for the the GTA, there is hardly a "ghetto" situation afoot. Whether it is in the downtown of Toronto or in the suburban areas surrounding the city, there is a significant ethnic and racial mix.

in this country because they might not speak the language, be poor, be discriminated aginst, etc. when you bunch them up all in one spot you're putting people with hard lives all in one basket. note the situation described in maxy's post above. this is the danger. they don't really feel part of the country when they're isolated. factor in comments like stephen harpers from the west - "west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada; people who live in ghettos and are not integrated into Western Canadian society."

Where are people bunched in one spot as in France? Where are the Canadian ghettos?

then you see the danger of letting other areas being isolated from immigrants. they view the rest of the country as being un pure for some reason.

It sounds like you assume that people who live in mostly white communities are automatically racist (a racist attitude in itself). Is this so?

 

[dan e 1980]

It sounds like you assume that people who live in mostly white communities are automatically racist (a racist attitude in itself). Is this so?

yes bizorky, im racist damn it!

when you have communities that are isolated in race, SOME people that tend to live that way for a long time begin to view people that are different from them as outsiders and in a negative way.

you want an example? go visit any ethnic community and see how SOME (not all) people view people of other origins in a negative way. it's not a white sided problem, no group is immune from this social disorder.

Where are people bunched in one spot as in France? Where are the Canadian ghettos?

canada has it pretty good now. it has nothing to do with ghettos really. the mentality doesn't discriminate.

as for the the GTA, there is hardly a "ghetto" situation afoot. Whether it is in the downtown of Toronto or in the suburban areas surrounding the city, there is a significant ethnic and racial mix.

lets hope so.

 

[bizorky]

But what is your point if it is just SOME people? All these SOME people are going to have big variations on what they think about the OTHER people. So what's the danger?

 

[dan e 1980]

SOME people possess the ability to convince OTHER people and before you know it....

 

[bizorky]

You got me all curious: what happens...?

 

[dan e 1980]

anything can happen.

bizorky, what's wrong man? did i hit a nerve with you? don't wan't any dirty immigrants to soil your pure community?

 

[adma]

Of course not. Don't want any dirty born Canadians, either. Just a means of espousing the virtues of soap'n'water;-)

 

[dan e 1980]

adma, you could be on to something. maybe the soap economy was the reason why the british let the natives immigrate to canada in the first place. it was a long trip from the north west of the continent and figured they might be a bit sweaty by the time they reached toronto. |I

 

[bizorky]

bizorky, what's wrong man? did i hit a nerve with you? don't wan't any dirty immigrants to soil your pure community?

You have a way of getting off your own topic that is quite impressive. If I were to follow McLuhan's notion that "behind all humour is a grievance," then I would think that you are actually accusing me of something. In case you don't understand what I mean, I am making reference to your last sentence.

Let me remind you that it was, in fact, you that has raised the idea of danger surrounding immigration, race, concentrations of white people, and so on. You have done so to the degree that one can think that you are quite obsessed by race, and possibly incapable of seeing the people behind the labels (and skin colours).

Your hand-wringing about all the possible dangers lurking in every corner of the nation can be a bit much.

 

[dan e 1980]

You have a way of getting off your own topic that is quite impressive.

you have a impressive way of listening but only hearing what you want to hear.

segregation, weather it be by force, coincidence or by self will can't be a good thing. there's nothing wrong with offering people perks to locate to an area to promote diversity, which is afterall what this nation is about. having the archie bunker notion that if the blacks stay in their community, the spanish in theirs, the italians in theirs and the whites in theirs and everything is just fine, isn't that great. the reality is that everything isn't always fine. we way not have the social problems that france does but nobody knows what the future holds.

like i said, it isn't just that a community of white people might develop some people with racist views because they have never lived in a community that is multicultural, any ethinc community that is isolated from multiculturalism can harbour some individuals who also possess these traits.

i remember once there was a discussion about religion based schools and i supported them in the argument but i have changed my views since then. maybe they aren't such a good idea afterall. it kinda creates the same situation.

P.S,

i'm not saying you have the archie bunker notion but please try to understand what i'm trying to say here. it's not sinister.

 

[bizorky]

segregation, weather it be by force, coincidence or by self will can't be a good thing.

So, like, I'll ask you again: where in this country is this happening?

I've heard what you have said, you just can't seem to answer. What's up? Can't hear?

 

[dan e 1980]

So, like, I'll ask you again: where in this country is this happening?

on a provincial scale:

there seems to be a divide between alberta and ontario.

the also seems to be other divides which are on a local scale.

What's up? Can't hear?

it's the internet dummy

 

[bizorky]

you have a impressive way of listening but only hearing what you want to hear.

You were saying?