Ipsos Reid: Top ten issues for Torontonians

[bizorky]

on a provincial scale:

there seems to be a divide between alberta and ontario.

the also seems to be other divides which are on a local scale.

I think you should actually check these assertions against data. Just thinking something does not mean that's actually a fact.

 

[dan e 1980]

You were saying?

it was an analogy.

I think you should actually check these assertions against data. Just thinking something does not mean that's actually a fact.

isn't it true that a majority of people that immigrate to canada move to southern ontario?

 

[bizorky]

^Yes that is true, roughly speaking. But southern Ontario has a population that is significantly larger than the population of Alberta. So while proportionally smaller numbers of immigrants arrive in Alberta compared to Ontario, they are still significant numbers in that province on a per capita basis.

 

[dan e 1980]

do you know what the percentage is?

 

[bizorky]

If you are going to raise the issue and make assertions you should go do the research. Why should I waste my time for you? Get your own evidence.

 

[dan e 1980]

bizorky, it's always stated in the media. it's kinda common knowledge that most people immigrate to ontario.


www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf...0province'


2004 numbers. page 37.

53.1% of all immigrants settled in ontario.



population:

ontario: 2005 - 12,541,410 37.9% of canadian population.

 

[bizorky]

In a supposed defense of you concerns, you said:

on a provincial scale:
there seems to be a divide between alberta and ontario.
the also seems to be other divides which are on a local scale.

Since you seem fixated on Alberta, you should know that about 15% of the population in that province is foreign born (a higher proportion than Quebec), which would be the third highest in the country. It was also the fourth largest recepient of immigrants, taking in about seven percent of the total. Proportionally speaking, a province with about 10% of the national population that receives seven percent of the immigrants can hardly seen as monocultural. There, I've done your homework for you (if you want exact numbers, you know where to look).

bizorky, it's always stated in the media. it's kinda common knowledge that most people immigrate to ontario.

I am well aware of what is stated in the media. I can also read census data. You may not be aware of what is on page 37 of the report you posted.

segregation, weather it be by force, coincidence or by self will can't be a good thing. there's nothing wrong with offering people perks to locate to an area to promote diversity, which is afterall what this nation is about. having the archie bunker notion that if the blacks stay in their community, the spanish in theirs, the italians in theirs and the whites in theirs and everything is just fine, isn't that great. the reality is that everything isn't always fine. we way not have the social problems that france does but nobody knows what the future holds.

So, again, where is this potential for segregation happening in Canada that you view as a danger? Who is enforcing it? Last I checked, our constitution actually recognizes cultural diversity; there are federal and provincial departments that promote and protect this quality, yet you seem to see danger lurking everywhere.

 

[dan e 1980]

Since you seem fixated on Alberta, you should know that about 15% of the population in that province is foreign born (a higher proportion than Quebec), which would be the third highest in the country. It was also the fourth largest recepient of immigrants, taking in about seven percent of the total. Proportionally speaking, a province with about 10% of the national population that receives seven percent of the immigrants can hardly seen as monocultural. There, I've done your homework for you (if you want exact numbers, you know where to look).

how many of those immigrants are visible minorities?

 

[bizorky]

Wow, you are totally fixated on skin colour.


In 2001 there 329,000 visible minorities in Alberta, comprising 11% of the total population. The total population of visible minorities in Canada at that time was just under four million.




So where's the danger??

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

So, again, where is this potential for segregation happening in Canada that you view as a danger? Who is enforcing it? Last I checked, our constitution actually recognizes cultural diversity; there are federal and provincial departments that promote and protect this quality, yet you seem to see danger lurking everywhere.

In situations that involve racial, religous, or class divide, there is often little time from when everything seems to be 'just fine' to experiencing a break down. Two cases in point are the reactions of the Middle East against Denmark because of the cartoon published in on of their newspapers, and the riots in France. Both should well known to most people so there isnt any need to rehash details. How many where caught off guard when these situations arose? Sure some who studied these issues or where very aware of social trends may have seen it, but too many these events simply appeared on the news one day as they suddenly exploded in violence.

Could events such as those, in the form of violent outbursts by certain members of society, or other events, such as more long term and silent segregation, take place in Canada? It would be foolish to think that somehow it could not happen here.

Is there the possibility that in a country with high levels of immigration, cultural diversity and multinational makeup that segregation could occur among one or more of these groups? Why not. Take the hysterical media and the stereotyping that took place towards the Jamican community during Toronto's last 'gun spree'. How long would it take for the city to turn on this community if the Sun et al where to continue some of their fine journalistic coverage and insight into the issue.

How about First Nations People? Just today Indian Affairs Minister Jim Prentice announced a plan to improve the safety of drinking water in native communities. Yes, in Canada, a wealthy country by most standards, we have 21 communities in which water is undrinkable and another 170 where great risk lies. Of course the treatment of First Nations people in this country is embarassing and disgusting in many other aspects and in fact I would argue that if one wanted a case of segregation in this country, this is the best example.

Of course there are other possibilities too. Extreme Quebec Nationalists may once again wave a revolutionary flag and bring the FLQ back to life. Or perhaps a group of Extreme Alberta Republicans may one day take the same route and instill violence. There are other examples, although probably not very likely.

I would not suggest that there is currently a segment of society that is on the cusp of breaking away from the mainstream in a form of quiet segregation or through violence (aside from the First Nations). But issues dealing with cultural, nationality, immigration and intergration are always going to need to be adressed on an ongoing basis and at a time when tension between the Middle East and the West has left relations in a fragile state, there needs to be a heightened social conciousness in diverse country such as Canada to ensure that problems like we have seen in Europe do not occur here.

 

[bizorky]

In situations that involve racial, religous, or class divide, there is often little time from when everything seems to be 'just fine' to experiencing a break down. Two cases in point are the reactions of the Middle East against Denmark because of the cartoon published in on of their newspapers, and the riots in France. Both should well known to most people so there isnt any need to rehash details.

Again, where is this in Canada? It's fine to quote very different situations in other countries, or state hypothetical possibilities, but I am asking about the here and now.

Could events such as those, in the form of violent outbursts by certain members of society, or other events, such as more long term and silent segregation, take place in Canada? It would be foolish to think that somehow it could not happen here

Oh dear, foolish? Again, a hypothetical. But as of yet, no one has brought specific trends to light to show how these dangers are taking root in Canada. As for violent outbursts, I've been in caught in two riots after hockey games. Does this suggest a trend in hockey fan culture?

Is there the possibility that in a country with high levels of immigration, cultural diversity and multinational makeup that segregation could occur among one or more of these groups? Why not.

Possibility, sure. But I can come up with a wild array of my own possibilities, as with everyone else. Yes, segregation could occur, but in an increasingly diverse multiculture, it is far more likely to be self-imposed, and not forced by the culture at large. This is a big difference from the historical segregation you may be alluding to.

How about First Nations People? Just today Indian Affairs Minister Jim Prentice announced a plan to improve the safety of drinking water in native communities. Yes, in Canada, a wealthy country by most standards, we have 21 communities in which water is undrinkable and another 170 where great risk lies. Of course the treatment of First Nations people in this country is embarassing and disgusting in many other aspects and in fact I would argue that if one wanted a case of segregation in this country, this is the best example.

Well, we had been restricting ourselves to immigration, but...

First nations (note the plural) hardly always sing from the same song book, and are hardly equal in terms or resources and wealth across the country. Yet there is no agreement on either side (first nations and federal government) on how to proceed on so many issues. This is not an issue of race so much as it is an issue or economic power, land and defining self-government. It is very, very different from issues of immigration. In fact, there have been some straw polls in the past that have suggest new Canadians don't necessarily always share a sympathetic view towards the plight of first nations people.

Of course there are other possibilities too. Extreme Quebec Nationalists may once again wave a revolutionary flag and bring the FLQ back to life. Or perhaps a group of Extreme Alberta Republicans may one day take the same route and instill violence. There are other examples, although probably not very likely.

Sure, and you forgot about the rumblings of Ontario seperatism, or the potential breakaway of Cape Breton Island from Nova Scotia. As for the FLQ, it's dead. As for the PQ, even that party has embraced cultural diversity. No longer can that old fart Parizeau blame the "money and the ethnics," his cause needs the "ethnics." They are part of Quebec society. Nothing anyone can do about it. As for Alberta, it is hardly about immigration or race, as that province is actively seeking immigrants to come to that province right now. The big issues are money and finacial control, not the race or immigration issues that were being spoken of earlier.

I would not suggest that there is currently a segment of society that is on the cusp of breaking away from the mainstream in a form of quiet segregation or through violence (aside from the First Nations). But issues dealing with cultural, nationality, immigration and intergration are always going to need to be adressed on an ongoing basis and at a time when tension between the Middle East and the West has left relations in a fragile state, there needs to be a heightened social conciousness in diverse country such as Canada to ensure that problems like we have seen in Europe do not occur here

Following your first sentence, what is the danger?

You may not have noticed it, but this country actually puts considerable resources towards immigration and cultural issues, on the national, provincial and municipal levels. And this does not include the myriad of non-government groups and organizations that work very hard in pursuit of a healthy multicultural society on all levels. It has been, and is, an ongoing effort, and has attracted the attention of many European nations who are trying to understand why Canada is so successful at having created a multicultural society. Is everything perfect? No, but some people think we are actually doing something right.

 

[dan e 1980]

As for Alberta, it is hardly about immigration or race, as that province is actively seeking immigrants to come to that province right now.

judging by the words of alberta politicans and even our prime minister, it doesn't really seem that way. can you kinda see why i have my opinion?

lets not also forget the thousands of illegal immigrants, lots that contribute to the country that are going to be deported because of a conservative party and whose leader comes from you know where. lets forget a moment about the heartfelt resons why most should stay because the people in power don't care about that. in a time when trades people are scarce and alot of these people filled important labour needs, they had jobs and spent money which keeps other people employed. thousands of homes (weather they be rental units or houses) have just been unleashed on a market that is predicting a housing slowdown in the near future. if you want more housing you let more people live in canada so they get a home & belongings which keeps the economy moving.

i honestly think that alberta politicians want less visible minorities because they might be afraid and think that they might vote liberal or ndp.

 

[bizorky]

judging by the words of alberta politicans and even our prime minister, it doesn't really seem that way. can you kinda see why i have my opinion?

So a couple of politicians say things and you accuse an entire province of holding racist views?

lets not also forget the thousands of illegal immigrants, lots that contribute to the country that are going to be deported because of a conservative party and whose leader comes from you know where.

The operative word here being "illegal." One could easily suggest that some legal immigrants may have to wait longer because of this situation. Oh, and illegal immigrants were being deported under the liberal government as well, due to their illegal status here.

if you want more housing you let more people live in canada so they get a home & belongings which keeps the economy moving.

Along with the other stuff you wrote on this topic above, you might want to beef up your economic theory a little.

Still waiting for the dangers at hand.

 

[doady]

Between the years 1996 and 2001, 276,530 people migrated to the Calgary CMA. Of this total, 137,120 came from within Canada. Therefore, Calgary received 139,410 immigrants between 1996 and 2001.

The Toronto CMA received 411,710 during this time with 181,825 of these being from within Canada. Therefore, Toronto received 229,885 immgrants between 1996 and 2001.

Comparing the two, Calgary received a much higher number of immigrants per capita between 1996 and 2001 than Toronto did.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

doady:

Your numbers are wrong.

Toronto CMA
Total Immigrant Population by Period> 1996-2001: 415,505

www12.statcan.ca/english/...GID=510564

Calgary CMA
Total Immigrant Population by Period> 1996-2001: 36,390

www12.statcan.ca/english/...GID=510607

AoD