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If you could change one thing about Toronto, what would it be?
- Thread starter greenleaf
- Start date
doady
Senior Member
In 2008, alcohol was the cause of over 2 million deaths worldwide, which is the same amount of deaths that AIDS caused in 2007. So no, I don't agree that liquor laws sohuld be relaxed. In fact, they should probably be even more strict.
Northern Light
Superstar
Wait a minute
We're getting off topic, but I'm gonna throw fuel on the fire!
What's this about business about booze killing people?
Group[3] ↓ Cause ↓ Percent of deaths ↓ All ↓ Male ↓ Female ↓
– All Causes 100.00 916.1 954.7 877.1
A Cardiovascular diseases 29.34 268.8 259.3 278.4
B Infectious and parasitic diseases 19.12 175.2 185.1 165.1
A.1 Ischemic heart disease 12.64 115.8 121.4 110.1
C Malignant neoplasms (cancers) 12.49 114.4 126.9 101.7
A.2 Cerebrovascular disease (Stroke) 9.66 88.5 81.4 95.6
B.1 Respiratory infections 6.95 63.7 63.5 63.8
B.1.1 Lower respiratory tract infections 6.81 62.4 62.2 62.6
D Respiratory diseases 6.49 59.5 61.1 57.9
E Unintentional injuries (Accidents, etc) 6.23 57.0 73.7 40.2
B.2 HIV/AIDS 4.87 44.6 46.2 43.0
D.1 Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 4.82 44.1 45.1 43.1
– Perinatal conditions 4.32 39.6 43.7 35.4
F Digestive diseases 3.45 31.6 34.9 28.2
B.3 Diarrheal diseases 3.15 28.9 30.0 27.8
G Intentional injuries (Suicide, Violence, War, etc) 2.84 26.0 37.0 14.9
B.4 Tuberculosis 2.75 25.2 32.9 17.3
B.5 Malaria 2.23 20.4 19.4 21.5
C.1 Lung cancers 2.18 20.0 28.4 11.4
E.1 Road traffic accidents 2.09 19.1 27.8 10.4
B.6 Childhood diseases 1.97 18.1 18.0 18.2
H Neuropsychiatric disorders 1.95 17.9 18.4 17.3
– Diabetes mellitus 1.73 15.9 14.1 17.7
A.3 Hypertensive heart disease 1.60 14.6 13.4 15.9
G.1 Suicide 1.53 14.0 17.4 10.6
C.2 Stomach cancer 1.49 13.7 16.7 10.5
I Diseases of the genitourinary system 1.49 13.6 14.1 13.1
F.1 Cirrhosis of the liver 1.38 12.6 16.1 9.1
I.1 Nephritis/nephropathy 1.19 10.9 11.0 10.7
C.3 Colorectal cancer 1.09 10.0 10.3 9.7
C.4 Liver cancer 1.08 9.9 13.6 6.2
B.6.1 Measles 1.07 9.8 9.8 9.9
G.2 Violence 0.98 9.0 14.2 3.7
– Maternal conditions 0.89 8.2 0.0 16.5
– Congenital abnormalities 0.86 7.9 8.1 7.7
J Nutritional deficiencies 0.85 7.8 6.9 8.7
C.5 Breast cancer 0.84 7.7 0.1 15.3
C.6 Esophageal cancer 0.78 7.2 9.1 5.2
A.4 Inflammatory heart disease 0.71 6.5 6.7 6.2
H.1 Alzheimer's disease and other dementias 0.70 6.4 4.7 8.1
E.2 Falls 0.69 6.3 7.5 5.0
E.3 Drowning 0.67 6.1 8.4 3.9
E.4 Poisoning 0.61 5.6 7.2 4.0
C.7 Lymphomas, multiple myeloma 0.59 5.4 5.4 5.4
A.5 Rheumatic heart disease 0.57 5.3 4.4 6.1
C.8 Oral cancers and oropharynx cancers 0.56 5.1 7.1 3.1
E.5 Fires 0.55 5.0 3.8 6.2
B.6.2 Pertussis 0.52 4.7 4.7 4.8
C.9 Prostate cancer 0.47 4.3 8.6 0.0
C.10 Leukemia 0.46 4.2 4.7 3.8
F.2 Peptic ulcer disease 0.46 4.2 5.0 3.5
J.1 Protein-energy malnutrition 0.46 4.2 4.2 4.2
– Endocrine/nutritional disorders 0.43 3.9 3.4 4.4
D.2 Asthma 0.42 3.9 3.9 3.8
C.11 Cervical cancer 0.42 3.8 0.0 7.7
C.12 Pancreatic cancer 0.41 3.7 3.9 3.5
B.6.3 Tetanus 0.38 3.4 3.4 3.5
B.7Sexually transmitted diseases excluding HIV/AIDS 0.32 2.9 2.9 2.9
C.13 Bladder cancer 0.31 2.9 4.0 1.7
B.8 Meningitis 0.30 2.8 2.9 2.7
G.3 War 0.30 2.8 5.0 0.5
B.7.1 Syphilis 0.28 2.5 2.7 2.3
– Neoplasms other than malignant 0.26 2.4 2.4 2.4
J.2 Iron deficiency anemia 0.24 2.2 1.5 2.9
C.14 Ovarian cancer 0.24 2.2 0.0 4.4
B.9 Tropical diseases excluding malaria 0.23 2.1 2.5 1.6
H.2 Epilepsy 0.22 2.0 2.2 1.8
– Musculoskeletal diseases 0.19 1.7 1.2 2.2
B.10 Hepatitis B 0.18 1.7 2.3 1.0
H.3 Parkinson's disease 0.17 1.6 1.6 1.6
H.4 Alcohol use disorders 0.16 1.5 2.5 0.4
H.5 Drug use disorders 0.15 1.4 2.2 0.5
B.1.2 Upper respiratory infections 0.13 1.2 1.2 1.2
C.15 Uterine cancer 0.12 1.1 0.0 2.3
– Skin diseases 0.12 1.1 0.8 1.4
C.16 Melanoma and other skin cancers 0.12 1.1 1.1 1.0
B.11 Hepatitis C 0.09 0.9 1.1 0.6
B.9.1 Leishmaniasis 0.09 0.8 1.0 0.7
B.9.2 Trypanosomiasis
Alcohol Use Disorders are clearly listed, as among the least likely causes of death
Now, of course its true that some accidents involve alcohol, and that said alcohol may have been (and in some cases almost certainly was) the cause of impairment that lead to said accident; but that still would not make it a leading cause of death.
IF you were to restrict alcohol on that basis; you would have to ban car use, most factories, a variety of professions, are larger cause of death in the aggregate.
And of course you will need to ban sex, since both STDs and 'Maternal Conditions' cause more deaths than booze too!
Of course, then there just wouldn't be any people left! But the world be free of human death!
I am all for sensible restrictions on human behavior (including drinking and driving) but suggestion that gov't should be able to make it difficult to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner; ........
The suicide rate would double overnight! (quadruple in France!)
We're getting off topic, but I'm gonna throw fuel on the fire!
What's this about business about booze killing people?
Group[3] ↓ Cause ↓ Percent of deaths ↓ All ↓ Male ↓ Female ↓
– All Causes 100.00 916.1 954.7 877.1
A Cardiovascular diseases 29.34 268.8 259.3 278.4
B Infectious and parasitic diseases 19.12 175.2 185.1 165.1
A.1 Ischemic heart disease 12.64 115.8 121.4 110.1
C Malignant neoplasms (cancers) 12.49 114.4 126.9 101.7
A.2 Cerebrovascular disease (Stroke) 9.66 88.5 81.4 95.6
B.1 Respiratory infections 6.95 63.7 63.5 63.8
B.1.1 Lower respiratory tract infections 6.81 62.4 62.2 62.6
D Respiratory diseases 6.49 59.5 61.1 57.9
E Unintentional injuries (Accidents, etc) 6.23 57.0 73.7 40.2
B.2 HIV/AIDS 4.87 44.6 46.2 43.0
D.1 Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 4.82 44.1 45.1 43.1
– Perinatal conditions 4.32 39.6 43.7 35.4
F Digestive diseases 3.45 31.6 34.9 28.2
B.3 Diarrheal diseases 3.15 28.9 30.0 27.8
G Intentional injuries (Suicide, Violence, War, etc) 2.84 26.0 37.0 14.9
B.4 Tuberculosis 2.75 25.2 32.9 17.3
B.5 Malaria 2.23 20.4 19.4 21.5
C.1 Lung cancers 2.18 20.0 28.4 11.4
E.1 Road traffic accidents 2.09 19.1 27.8 10.4
B.6 Childhood diseases 1.97 18.1 18.0 18.2
H Neuropsychiatric disorders 1.95 17.9 18.4 17.3
– Diabetes mellitus 1.73 15.9 14.1 17.7
A.3 Hypertensive heart disease 1.60 14.6 13.4 15.9
G.1 Suicide 1.53 14.0 17.4 10.6
C.2 Stomach cancer 1.49 13.7 16.7 10.5
I Diseases of the genitourinary system 1.49 13.6 14.1 13.1
F.1 Cirrhosis of the liver 1.38 12.6 16.1 9.1
I.1 Nephritis/nephropathy 1.19 10.9 11.0 10.7
C.3 Colorectal cancer 1.09 10.0 10.3 9.7
C.4 Liver cancer 1.08 9.9 13.6 6.2
B.6.1 Measles 1.07 9.8 9.8 9.9
G.2 Violence 0.98 9.0 14.2 3.7
– Maternal conditions 0.89 8.2 0.0 16.5
– Congenital abnormalities 0.86 7.9 8.1 7.7
J Nutritional deficiencies 0.85 7.8 6.9 8.7
C.5 Breast cancer 0.84 7.7 0.1 15.3
C.6 Esophageal cancer 0.78 7.2 9.1 5.2
A.4 Inflammatory heart disease 0.71 6.5 6.7 6.2
H.1 Alzheimer's disease and other dementias 0.70 6.4 4.7 8.1
E.2 Falls 0.69 6.3 7.5 5.0
E.3 Drowning 0.67 6.1 8.4 3.9
E.4 Poisoning 0.61 5.6 7.2 4.0
C.7 Lymphomas, multiple myeloma 0.59 5.4 5.4 5.4
A.5 Rheumatic heart disease 0.57 5.3 4.4 6.1
C.8 Oral cancers and oropharynx cancers 0.56 5.1 7.1 3.1
E.5 Fires 0.55 5.0 3.8 6.2
B.6.2 Pertussis 0.52 4.7 4.7 4.8
C.9 Prostate cancer 0.47 4.3 8.6 0.0
C.10 Leukemia 0.46 4.2 4.7 3.8
F.2 Peptic ulcer disease 0.46 4.2 5.0 3.5
J.1 Protein-energy malnutrition 0.46 4.2 4.2 4.2
– Endocrine/nutritional disorders 0.43 3.9 3.4 4.4
D.2 Asthma 0.42 3.9 3.9 3.8
C.11 Cervical cancer 0.42 3.8 0.0 7.7
C.12 Pancreatic cancer 0.41 3.7 3.9 3.5
B.6.3 Tetanus 0.38 3.4 3.4 3.5
B.7Sexually transmitted diseases excluding HIV/AIDS 0.32 2.9 2.9 2.9
C.13 Bladder cancer 0.31 2.9 4.0 1.7
B.8 Meningitis 0.30 2.8 2.9 2.7
G.3 War 0.30 2.8 5.0 0.5
B.7.1 Syphilis 0.28 2.5 2.7 2.3
– Neoplasms other than malignant 0.26 2.4 2.4 2.4
J.2 Iron deficiency anemia 0.24 2.2 1.5 2.9
C.14 Ovarian cancer 0.24 2.2 0.0 4.4
B.9 Tropical diseases excluding malaria 0.23 2.1 2.5 1.6
H.2 Epilepsy 0.22 2.0 2.2 1.8
– Musculoskeletal diseases 0.19 1.7 1.2 2.2
B.10 Hepatitis B 0.18 1.7 2.3 1.0
H.3 Parkinson's disease 0.17 1.6 1.6 1.6
H.4 Alcohol use disorders 0.16 1.5 2.5 0.4
H.5 Drug use disorders 0.15 1.4 2.2 0.5
B.1.2 Upper respiratory infections 0.13 1.2 1.2 1.2
C.15 Uterine cancer 0.12 1.1 0.0 2.3
– Skin diseases 0.12 1.1 0.8 1.4
C.16 Melanoma and other skin cancers 0.12 1.1 1.1 1.0
B.11 Hepatitis C 0.09 0.9 1.1 0.6
B.9.1 Leishmaniasis 0.09 0.8 1.0 0.7
B.9.2 Trypanosomiasis
Alcohol Use Disorders are clearly listed, as among the least likely causes of death
Now, of course its true that some accidents involve alcohol, and that said alcohol may have been (and in some cases almost certainly was) the cause of impairment that lead to said accident; but that still would not make it a leading cause of death.
IF you were to restrict alcohol on that basis; you would have to ban car use, most factories, a variety of professions, are larger cause of death in the aggregate.
And of course you will need to ban sex, since both STDs and 'Maternal Conditions' cause more deaths than booze too!
Of course, then there just wouldn't be any people left! But the world be free of human death!
I am all for sensible restrictions on human behavior (including drinking and driving) but suggestion that gov't should be able to make it difficult to enjoy a glass of wine with dinner; ........
The suicide rate would double overnight! (quadruple in France!)
OttoSchloss
Active Member
And smoking related deaths are many ten times that much but yet people are free to light up in public. As far as AIDS goes, people are still having sex -should we require a license for it since in reality -after over 2 decades of that disease we should all know better how to protect ourselves, yet people still have sex without condoms and the rates of HIV infection among people who should know better are increasing?
It comes down to personal choices about your health. Some people do things to excess while others practice moderation. It's not the government's job to direct or govern personal behavior or choices. And societies that relax their laws concerning certain behaviors including drug use, sex, and drinking tend to have fewer issues with abuse. The U.K. versus France is a prime example of this (where drinking is concerned).
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allabootmatt
Senior Member
I am not entirely sure of the thrust of your U.K./France comparison--in fact, I think that example, if anything, shows that there's a null relationship between laws and abuse. The U.K. and France both have pretty relaxed laws on alcohol, yet one country has extremely serious alcohol-linked social problems and the other doesn't. That suggests to me it's largely cultural.
In Britain no one thinks anything of standing around drinking on the sidewalk outside a pub, sometimes in groups so large they block streets. In fact you can see a good proportion of the country's business elite doing just this on dozens of corners in the City on any Friday night. That sort of thing would give AGCO inspectors in Ontario a hear attack, of course. And hell, drinking has only been illegal on the tube (!) for like a year.
In Britain no one thinks anything of standing around drinking on the sidewalk outside a pub, sometimes in groups so large they block streets. In fact you can see a good proportion of the country's business elite doing just this on dozens of corners in the City on any Friday night. That sort of thing would give AGCO inspectors in Ontario a hear attack, of course. And hell, drinking has only been illegal on the tube (!) for like a year.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Drinking in public, like illicit drug use, happens with or without a law and like drug use, making it legal would not largely change societal behaviour and norms.
I'm not supposed to drink beer at the beach, for example. I still do it. If it was legal I'd continue to do it at the same frequency I do now. Nothing would change. I wouldn't suddenly go berserk and walk around everywhere withe a bottle of gin hanging from my lips and I'll bet my bollocks to a barn dance (bonus points: what film is this a line in?) that most people would be equally meek about taking advantage of the new law.
Anyway: what change I'd like to see is a serious rapid transit expansion programme (Transit City ain't it, by the by). I'm talking a serious, non-linear network of fast, convenient, 24 hour transit.
That and an increase in minimum density requirements for all new development throughout the city.
oh, oh, oh.......and a ban on plastic neon signage
aaaaaaaaaand, a REAL stadium for TFC
I'm not supposed to drink beer at the beach, for example. I still do it. If it was legal I'd continue to do it at the same frequency I do now. Nothing would change. I wouldn't suddenly go berserk and walk around everywhere withe a bottle of gin hanging from my lips and I'll bet my bollocks to a barn dance (bonus points: what film is this a line in?) that most people would be equally meek about taking advantage of the new law.
Anyway: what change I'd like to see is a serious rapid transit expansion programme (Transit City ain't it, by the by). I'm talking a serious, non-linear network of fast, convenient, 24 hour transit.
That and an increase in minimum density requirements for all new development throughout the city.
oh, oh, oh.......and a ban on plastic neon signage
aaaaaaaaaand, a REAL stadium for TFC
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Nebakenezer
Active Member
Toronto Streets, I would change the streets, make them wider and in a grid pattern.
sjc
Active Member
The one thing that I would do to dramatically improve the traffic situation would be to build the Spadina Expressway, connecting the Allen Road to the Gardiner Expressway. I would build it underground at least from Dupont to the Lake.
OttoSchloss
Active Member
I was referring to the early pub closures which aren't the norm anymore and the binge effect it had on the patrons.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
The Spadina expressway, underground or not, would be a virtual parking lot from day one.
sjc
Active Member
...which would be proof that it is a route that people would want to take.
if my "one thing" had an infinite budget, I'd extend it south past the gardiner to go past the island airport (with access ramps), around the outside of the islands, and then east at the bottom of the lake along the coast to link up with the 401 at the Rouge.
if my "one thing" had an infinite budget, I'd extend it south past the gardiner to go past the island airport (with access ramps), around the outside of the islands, and then east at the bottom of the lake along the coast to link up with the 401 at the Rouge.
lordmandeep
Banned
Yeah the problem would be with that expressway would be just a ton of traffic getting jammed especially if it merges with the highway near the lake.
sjc
Active Member
Probably the best thing to do would be to have it service some downtown streets directly, rather than just feed onto the Gardiner. If you are going to the downtown core, you shouldn't need to get onto the Gardiner. At least feed Adelaide/Richmond, like the DVP does.
EDIT: You could also run a connector branch from near Casa Loma across to the Don Valley to connect with Bayview and the DVP via the Rosedale Valley, with access to Yonge and Bloor. This would allow people going to mid-town and east downtown to avoid the Spadina underground part (which I would run down between St George/Beverly and McCaul from Dupont).
EDIT: You could also run a connector branch from near Casa Loma across to the Don Valley to connect with Bayview and the DVP via the Rosedale Valley, with access to Yonge and Bloor. This would allow people going to mid-town and east downtown to avoid the Spadina underground part (which I would run down between St George/Beverly and McCaul from Dupont).
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salvius
Active Member
Capacity fills from day one on most routes, doesn't mean it's worth doing it. Expanding 6 lanes on QEW would see them fill up pretty fast, but it doesn't mean we should have 20 lane highways all over the place either.
In any case, if I could change one thing about Toronto, it would be the exact opposite of that suggestion -- less highways (i.e. remove at least a part of the Gardiner) and much more effective PT serving the city.
sjc
Active Member
If public transit was improved to the point where traffic was significantly reduced on the Gardiner, then I would support looking at removing some of it. But I disagree with the apparently common wisdom that removing highways/lanes/roads makes traffic improve.