If you could change one thing about Toronto, what would it be?

[Glen]

At least those unfortunate Toronto residents that are not shiny or happy can travel to the 905 for employment. Even those higher paying office jobs have moved, or increased more, in the 905 region.....

City of Toronto employment in the sector grew at 2.3 percent during the recent four-year period (2000-2004), higher than the overall employment growth rate of 1.5 percent. However, when taken into the geographic context of the 905 versus 416 regions, financial services growth in the 905 eclipses that of the City of Toronto recording growth rates of more than 6 percent over the four and 10-year periods.

Insurance and Securities/Investment have driven Financial Services’ regional growth during the past 10 years. However, the City of Toronto has lost ground in the Insurance sub-sector over the four and 10-year periods, recording negative growth while the 905 racked up double-digit growth over the four-year period and 8.7 percent over the longer term. The 905 share of insurance employment now stands at 59 percent surpassing the City of Toronto at 41 percent. Growth in the Securities/Investment sub-sector has been strong at close to five percent over the four and 10-year terms in the City of Toronto. The 905 levels for the same periods have been twice that at 9.9 percent and 11 percent respectively. However, the City of Toronto still retains the majority of securities employment at 55 percent.

Some Financial Services jobs are mobile and are highly susceptible to re-location. The Financial Services Sector Profile reveals that employment gains have already been made in the 905 region as compared to City of Toronto from 1994 to 2004. In addition, the 2003 TFSA Competitiveness Survey found that 70 percent of Toronto region firms had contemplated their options whether to expand, downsize or relocate. In the face of escalating cost pressures, including taxes, all levels of government must work together to create a positive and competitive business environment.

2002, the 905 area became a net importer of labour from Toronto and the rest of Ontario. In 2003, the 905 area finally surpassed the City of Toronto in terms of total employment. Already in 2001, more City residents commuted to jobs in Vaughan, than Vaughan residents worked in the City.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Dude, we're not arguing, we're just yelling past each other.

Glen, I'm halfway just trying to get your goat, and halfway trying to get you to admit that downtown Toronto is (a) a pretty nice place and (b) not about to be the next Detroit.

You can quote all the stats you want from 2002 or 2004 or, for that matter, 2009. But the evidence presented to my eyeballs is that downtown Toronto is growing and building at a ferocious rate.

Until Telus actually occupies its tower, or RBC Dexia occupies its building, those jobs won't show up in your bloody statistics! Look around. Your argument seems to be that living in a funky condo in downtown Toronto or a semi-detached in Riverdale and commuting to Ford drive or 404 and Steeles is a decidedly negative thing for both the commuter and the city. Your other argument seems to be that we have to attract more jobs to downtown.

Well -- I fail to see why, since it's a seamlessly integrated local economy (to quote the CMA definition), if people want to live at CityPlace and work at Canada's Wonderland, that you can't just say live and let live. And, when the Toronto poobahs follow your advice and lower taxes and build offices, feel free to preen a little, say I told you to do that... but also acknowledge that they're actually doing what you advocated.

Cheers.

 

[Glen]

Glen, I'm halfway just trying to get your goat, and halfway trying to get you to admit that downtown Toronto is (a) a pretty nice place and (b) not about to be the next Detroit.

I know that. And I agree that downtown is pretty nice. I just think that it is so much less than it could have been or still could be. There is also the issue of sustainability. We have a city that is forging ahead with the most expensive capital project in its history, Transit City, yet increasingly residents must travel outside of the city for work. Transit city will not facilitate them.

You can quote all the stats you want from 2002 or 2004 or, for that matter, 2009. But the evidence presented to my eyeballs is that downtown Toronto is growing and building at a ferocious rate.

Yes but save for the few examples that you mentioned, condos, condos and more condos with GFR are what has been built. All of which increase the financial obligations of the city by a greater amount than the revenue they produce.

Until Telus actually occupies its tower, or RBC Dexia occupies its building, those jobs won't show up in your bloody statistics!

I am concerned that Telus and RBC Dexia might behave in a similar fashion to Corus. Whereby occupancy will be a result of consolidating existing offices under a new roof. The effect might be a dilution of commercial assessment values with no new net assessment base growth.

Your argument seems to be that living in a funky condo in downtown Toronto or a semi-detached in Riverdale and commuting to Ford drive or 404 and Steeles is a decidedly negative thing for both the commuter and the city. Your other argument seems to be that we have to attract more jobs to downtown.

My argument has has been that the city needs a well rounded assessment base for its long term fiscal health. It needs a variety of different and good jobs to service its diverse communities.

Well -- I fail to see why, since it's a seamlessly integrated local economy (to quote the CMA definition), if people want to live at CityPlace and work at Canada's Wonderland, that you can't just say live and let live. And, when the Toronto poobahs follow your advice and lower taxes and build offices, feel free to preen a little, say I told you to do that... but also acknowledge that they're actually doing what you advocated.

Cheers.

There is nothing wrong with that, so long as it is a choice. For many, the location of their place of employment is not so discretionary, though. As such, increasingly more residents must travel outside of the city. Then council, wishing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, embarks on costly programs to address the environmental costs, yet in turn ends up exasperating the issue.

In the end my biggest pet peeve that politicians in Toronto have for too long promised something for nothing. The true cost of running this city has been hidden from residents.

John Maynard Keynes might as well been talking about Toronto when he wrote........



“Nor should the argument seem strange that taxation may be so high as to defeat its object, and that, given sufficient time to gather the fruits, a reduction of taxation will run a better chance than an increase of balancing the budget. For to take the opposite view today is to resemble a manufacturer who, running at a loss, decides to raise his price, and when his declining sales increase the loss, wrapping himself in the rectitude of plain arithmetic, decides that prudence requires him to raise the price still more—and who, when at last his account is balanced with nought on both sides, is still found righteously declaring that it would have been the act of a gambler to reduce the price when you were already making a loss.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Swan Boats along the lake shore

This has been mentioned in Steve Munro's Web Site, but I will mention it here: swan boats along the rivers, lake shore, and waterways of Toronto.

 

[kettal]

If public transit was improved to the point where traffic was significantly reduced on the Gardiner, then I would support looking at removing some of it. But I disagree with the apparently common wisdom that removing highways/lanes/roads makes traffic improve.

May I ask, then, why you support highway building over transit improvement?

 

[Anth]

This has been mentioned in Steve Munro's Web Site, but I will mention it here: swan boats along the rivers, lake shore, and waterways of Toronto.

The whole swan boat local meme was neither funny nor clever in the first place, yet Munro and his fans continue to pat themselves on the back for it.

 

[Whoaccio]

^
I'm pretty sure SwanBoats are actually comparable in speed to some of the tram-to-the-future schemes proposed by the fetishists.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Worrying for the sake of worrying

I am concerned that Telus and RBC Dexia might behave in a similar fashion to Corus. Whereby occupancy will be a result of consolidating existing offices under a new roof. The effect might be a dilution of commercial assessment values with no new net assessment base growth.

My argument has has been that the city needs a well rounded assessment base for its long term fiscal health. It needs a variety of different and good jobs to service its diverse communities.

How in Gawd's name do you start worrying about the faint possibility that building new AAA office buildings, which is WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING, can THEN be a negative???

Seriously... you need to find a sunshine-lit patio and have a beer and watch the pretty girls go by and relax.

If it helps you chill on what'll happen once someone moves into a new building, Ubisoft is seriously considering taking some or all of Corus' old space when Corus moves to the Quay. I'm assuming that, since Dexia is coming out of other RY space downtown, it'll be filled by similar businesses. I don't know where Telus, Bay-Adelaide, or PWC tenants will be coming from, but I'm betting that all of them will be new positives to downtown job figures.

 

[valkoholic]

I think Dexia is moving mainly from TD Centre as is PWC. The pattern seems to be that growing companies or divisions with offices in a number of buildings want to consolidate their space so they become prime tenants in a new building. Their vacated, fractured space gets taken up by small firms who are happy with half a floor of space. It's like the cycle of life, except with lawyers and accountants instead of seeds and trees.

 

[CDL.TO]

The whole swan boat local meme was neither funny nor clever in the first place, yet Munro and his fans continue to pat themselves on the back for it.

Bingo. It was funny and clever when it was used by Steve Munro as an analogy for a number of transit planning issues from the past decade. But when people started referencing it, it simply became a meme which didn't even make sense.

If anything, the whole thing has become recursive as Whoaccio points out. Swan boats are a good analogy for a transportation solution that is predicated upon novelty and taking one-side-fits-all to an absurd conclusion rather than efficiency and quality.

 

[kettal]

I thought it was a play on making the Don Valley into a public transit corridor.

 

[timeo]

More than anything, the political leadership and climate that surrounds this city. Toronto's a great place, but it's constantly held back by inept leaders, silly debates and stupid infighting. It's not just the immediate city leadership in David Miller, but also provincial and federal lack of leadership in this area that really annoys me. When I was growing up, I used to think that anything could happen in Toronto. Now that I've gotten older, I realise that that's just not true; at least not in this sort of climate. It's one of the reasons why I left and don't live in Southern Ontario any more, and why I don't think I will in the near future. I wish I could change that part of Toronto.

 

[kettal]

More than anything, the political leadership and climate that surrounds this city. Toronto's a great place, but it's constantly held back by inept leaders, silly debates and stupid infighting. It's not just the immediate city leadership in David Miller, but also provincial and federal lack of leadership in this area that really annoys me. When I was growing up, I used to think that anything could happen in Toronto. Now that I've gotten older, I realise that that's just not true; at least not in this sort of climate. It's one of the reasons why I left and don't live in Southern Ontario any more, and why I don't think I will in the near future. I wish I could change that part of Toronto.

Do you reckon the change came with amalgamation?

 

[GenerationW]

Do you reckon the change came with amalgamation?

I'd say it came with the coming of age of the suburbs in the 70's. One would have thought that amalgamation should have greatly improved things after the former Byzantine municipal system in Metro Toronto was shelved, but that has been a slow, uneven process.

 

[timeo]

To be honest, I'm not sure. I get the feeling that political leadership back in the day wasn't nearly this inept, but I can't quite say at what point it became from meh to blah.