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Homelessness and Panhandling in Toronto

There's a girl who did that on college and yonge too. I gave her a bit the first time, but she did the same thing another day not noticing or caring that she already scammed me. Actually this was well over a year ago and she wasn't well dressed, so maybe she's moved up in panhandling/scam status.
Again folks, by giving money to beggars, even the sneaky ones like this, makes you part of the problem. As long as there's the slightess chance that someone, anyone, will provide the reward needed to justify the act, the act will continue. Don't feed the beast, and it will go away on its own.

If you want to truly help folks, give money to the United Way or another charity that helps homeless folks.
 
Again folks, by giving money to beggars, even the sneaky ones like this, makes you part of the problem. As long as there's the slightess chance that someone, anyone, will provide the reward needed to justify the act, the act will continue. Don't feed the beast, and it will go away on its own.
Admiral, I actually agree with you! However, I'm not so sure I believe in making it illegal (at this point anyway).

It's probably also fair to suggest that petty crime would increase immediately if a ban were to be put in place. Perhaps violent crime too.
 
Many Panhandlers Simply Bullies


Article From TheStar

Aug 18, 2007 04:30 AM
Rosie DiManno

Gordon D'Aloisio was waiting for the light to change when a stranger jumped into his car.

The girl, who appeared no older than 20, dishevelled and snarling, demanded D'Aloisio give her $20. When he refused, she yanked the keys out of the ignition and scrambled out. D'Aloisio gave pursuit.

"I caught her and she started pulling on my shirt, getting really rough. I had her up against a parked car and she bit me hard on the wrist. Then some other guy comes from behind and starts choking me. I almost passed out.''

The girl dropped the keys and the two assailants fled. It's unclear whether they even knew each other.

This happened a few weeks ago, at four o'clock in the afternoon, at the intersection of King and Strachan, not too distant from where Ross Hammond was stabbed to death last Thursday after a dispute with aggressive panhandlers.

Bystanders called 911. Police never did respond, though an ambulance arrived shortly thereafter. D'Aloisio was treated on the spot and then took himself to hospital. His arm swelled to twice its normal size from the teeth puncture, deep into the flesh. He's since been treated for possible AIDS contamination though the greater concern is hepatitis, thus the therapeutic regime of antibiotics.

D'Aloisio is 70 years old, a retired steamfitter.

His rage is directed equally at the girl – he suspects she was on drugs – and the inertia of police. "I went down to 14 Division and they took the details but nobody seemed really interested.

" I'm a guy who's paid taxes all my life and this is the kind of service I get? I said, how am I supposed to protect myself? Should I buy mace? The guy said, `whatever you think is necessary.'''

The murder of a stroller, allegedly by a homeless mendicant, is an anomaly. This is not, in its narrow parameters, cause to ban panhandling outright because bad cases make bad laws. But the culture of overt and intrusive badgering has become epidemic in Toronto, causing bitterness among business owners and fearfulness among residents. Their concerns deserve better than the cavalier dismissal affected by Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone, who basically told complainers to stuff it.

Deterioration of the common space is not limited to the bar district on King St. and Queen St. W. It is impossible to negotiate downtown streets without being constantly accosted by aggressive panhandlers and feral street people. It may be true that some, perhaps the majority, are desperately indigent and mentally ill. But a great many are also transients, drunks and layabouts, well aware that public policy in Toronto is to tolerate abuse out of a misplaced, certainly disproportionate, concern for beggared circumstances.

Public sufferance doesn't make their sad lives any better. It most assuredly doesn't discourage them from living rough and slovenly, ruining their health – mental and physical – while steadily eroding the urban wellness of the city. Or perhaps we've decided that, between competing interests, the entitlement of panhandlers trumps the rights of neighbourhoods to enjoy their parks, their sidewalks, their patios, and for women to move about without being subjected to a barrage of obscenities if unwilling to pony up.

The city is dying, corroded by a multiplicity of malaise.

Denial of reality is merely wasting precious time. While efforts such as the Streets to Homes project are to be applauded, there has to be some admission that not all these stick-up artists are victims of social evils beyond their control, that many are bullies and slugs.

It's not okay to terrorize in the home. Neither is it all right to abuse citizen strangers on the street.

==============================================


Reading this story, I was quite surprised that the Police didn't respond. I'm also surprised that they're described [in this and other articles] as having a couldn't-care-less attitude. I'm curious, is it the province or city that direct the Police on how to behave with various issues [think back to Mike Harris] or does the Police chief determine these things?
 
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/08/17/panhandlers-police.html

Panhandling charges soar in 2007: Toronto police

Last Updated: Friday, August 17, 2007 | 3:31 PM ET
CBC News

Police in Toronto have laid more than 1,400 charges against aggressive panhandlers so far this year, which is already higher than the 1,257 laid in all of 2006.

The charges were laid under the province's Safe Streets Act, which was tabled in 1999 amid an uproar over the tactics of "squeegee kids" — young men and women who sprinted into traffic in downtown Toronto to wash windshields for cash.

The law prohibits soliciting people for money in an aggressive manner and allows police to issue $70 fines. It also forbids panhandling near ATMs, pay phones and public transit stops.

But some officers patrolling the streets say much of their time is occupied dealing with aggressive panhandlers.

Const. John Wood estimated that 90 to 95 per cent of panhandlers they encounter have no fixed address and most don't show up in court when charged.

"There's just no way to force them to go to court," Wood told CBC News.

Wood and his partner, Const. Liam Murphy, patrol the area covering the Lakeshore north to Bloor Street and from Yonge Street west to Spadina Avenue on bicycles. It's an area known for a heavy concentration of panhandlers.

The two officers said all they can do is watch out for repeat offenders, as there is a provision in the act to send those individuals who are caught to jail.

But Beric German of the Street Health Community Nursing Foundation said the number of charges simply reflects the disproportionate amount of contact police have with homeless people because they are out in the open.

"When you do target groups, you're going to get more charges laid," German told CBCNews.ca.

Stabbing death sparked panhandling debate
Last week's slaying of a St. Catharines man following a heated confrontation with four alleged panhandlers sparked fresh debate over whether the city should take a zero-tolerance approach to the practice.

Ross Hammond, 32, was stabbed multiple times early last Thursday on Queen Street near Niagara Street after being approached for money.

On Thursday, six days after Hammond succumbed to his injuries, police upgraded the charge against Nicole Kish, 21, from aggravated assault to second-degree murder.

All four charged in connection with the death are in custody and are listed by police as having no fixed address. Three of the four are Americans and allegedly entered Canada illegally, police said.

But German said city councillors who have called for a panhandling ban in tourist areas are using the Hammond case to create an uproar over panhandling when laws already exist to protect citizens.

"You don't look at what somebody does for a living when it comes to charges," he said. "If I go and shout at you, I'm breaking the law, no matter who I am.

"If a doctor commits assault, you don't go and attack the medical profession."

From all parts of Canada: officers
Four or five years ago, most of the panhandlers the officers saw coming to Toronto were squeegee kids from Quebec. These days, police are seeing transients flock to the city from across Canada, Wood said.

"I guess it's just because it's such a high population, a lot of commuters, and the arteries, roadways are designed as such that vehicles get stuck at red lights, and it's easy for them to go out and make money," he said.

Many are wanted in other jurisdictions and are often found with drug paraphernalia when searched, Murphy added.

"It gets worse in the summer," he said.
 
Again folks, by giving money to beggars, even the sneaky ones like this, makes you part of the problem. As long as there's the slightess chance that someone, anyone, will provide the reward needed to justify the act, the act will continue. Don't feed the beast, and it will go away on its own.

If you want to truly help folks, give money to the United Way or another charity that helps homeless folks.

The problem is sometimes you don't know if it's a beggar or not. The girl wasn't posing as a beggar, she was posing as a person who came into an unfortunate accident of forgetting to not bring enough money from home. I've gone through the same situation when I was younger of being stranded at a far-away ttc station realizing that I just ran out of tickets or money, having to ask someone for a quarter or ticket. Also these days, even if you give money to a charity, we're finding out it's not guaranteed that the majority or any of the money will go where it's needed, you just have to hope that it will. Even the United Way has had their share of scandals.
 
It's probably also fair to suggest that petty crime would increase immediately if a ban were to be put in place. Perhaps violent crime too.
That stands to reason. If you've been feeding sandwiches to the the bears at your campsite, you don't want to be there when the sandwiches run out and the bear's still hungry.
 
Many Panhandlers Simply Bullies


Article From TheStar

Bystanders called 911. Police never did respond, though an ambulance arrived shortly thereafter.

His rage is directed equally at the girl – he suspects she was on drugs – and the inertia of police. "I went down to 14 Division and they took the details but nobody seemed really interested.

" I'm a guy who's paid taxes all my life and this is the kind of service I get? I said, how am I supposed to protect myself? Should I buy mace? The guy said, `whatever you think is necessary.'''
This sort of support can be expected when the official word from the Toronto Police is...
When approached by panhandlers, the public shouldn't make eye contact and continue walking past them, Sgt. Burrows said..
Honestly, what we need to get away from is the view that these are isolated instances and instead start to take back the city.
 
Panhandlers can be a real pain on Queen St during the lunch hour when crowds are big, the sidewalks are narrow and obstructed by freestanding signs and tree planters, and renovations are a common sight.

Panhandlers seem to congregate at the worst spots where they disrupt flow - and I'm especially angry at those who own dogs and have them lying down in the middle of the sidewalk...argh
 
I'm especially angry at those who own dogs and have them lying down in the middle of the sidewalk...argh


The dogs help them pull in higher revenues. They actually share the dogs at various locations... I saw a confrontation once between 2 panhandlers over who was getting the dog for the next few hours. On another note, earlier this week I saw 2 panhandlers in front of the Queen and John variety store arguing loudly... The young panhandler, who arrived to work the door, was accusing the older guy [who sits on a milkcrate in front of the store] of exceeding his allotted time limit for the day. I'm guessing they work the corners in shifts to keep everybody happy.

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks about the other type of scams that don't come across as aggressive panhandling, but are just as annoying. Like those 2 super friendly, very well dressed guys in front of the Eaton Center who approach pedestrians wanting to give them a "free" booklet on Black History... but before one can take the so-called free booklet, he/she is asked for a "donation" to cover the costs of the free booklet. They are hoping to tap into a gullible individual's fear of disappointing/offending them. Personally, I'd be offended by someone offering me something Free, then asking for money. Btw, from what I've observed, the people who didn't have anything to donate, never got to keep their free booklet.
 
Panhandlers seem to congregate at the worst spots where they disrupt flow - and I'm especially angry at those who own dogs and have them lying down in the middle of the sidewalk...argh
Just this afternoon I was standing in line at the outside CIBC ATM next to the bus/streetcar stop at Parliament and Carlton holding my four year old daughter's hand minding out own business and having a laugh when this mid-20s fellow starts asking everyone in line for exactly $2.75. IIRC, it is illegal under the begging laws to do so at ATMs or bus stops. He certainly looked like he could work a proper job.
 
i watched the chief on Cp24 and really he has some real negative views on these guys. He said almost all of them are no where near homeless and just looking for a way to "bum" money off people. Really ban panhandling if they are like that.

Really the problem is that some really messed up idealists have this warped idea that because Toronto has homeless people and such we are a better and more open society. I am not joking, i have had some heated debates with some socialists about panhandling and they really think everyone of them is in dire need. Wake up and see for yourself people!

Ban it and we can really help the people who really need it. Whats wrong with that. Panhandlers are getting more aggressive and many are coming from across NA because of our laxed stance on this issue.


Street artists and random people yelling out loud with a bible in their hand all add a unique vibe to Toronto. However aggressive bums who practically almost rob people of money hurts the city.

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks about the other type of scams that don't come across as panhandling, but are just as bad. Like those 2 super friendly, very well dressed guys in front of the Eaton Center who approach pedestrians wanting to give them a "free" booklet on Black History... but before one can take the so-called free booklet, he/she is asked for a "donation" to cover the costs. They are hoping to tap into a gullible individual's fear of disappointing/offending them. Personally, I'd be offended by someone offering me something Free, then asking for money. Btw, from what I've observed, the people who didn't have anything to donate, never got to keep their free booklet.

lol my friend lost 10 bucks to that guy...
He was also saying "donate money to end gang violence." He is not an street artist or some source of amusement (like the guy holding a sign saying "donate to Marijuana research"). He is a fraud and he should be arrested and charged and be banned from that area. Why not, i think anyone who frequents that area knows who he is.
 
I was just thinking about what that man said 2000 years ago about beggars: is it still true today?

imo, beggars/homeless people are merely filling a role in society. Just as there are lawyers and journalists, so must there be beggars. And beggars, just like those other beggars I deal with daily (traders) are darn good buyers and sellers of goods and perhaps the best sales people on Earth! If I was in a position to hire a sales staff, I'd hit the streets and get these clever folk into my organization!

That being said, Toronto surely must waste more time moaning about some problem it has little control over: free spirits. Imo, the deceased man made a mistake--never make eye contact with, give money to, or act agressive toward those who are highly likely to be under the influence of drugs (meth, crack etc) or alcohol. Sheer stupidity. Just like in the stock market, a mistake on the street market can cost ....

Remember, for ever dollar you give to a homeless person, 98% of it goes towards an addiction. The stabbing of that man may signal that the supply of drugs and money on the streets is less than the supply of beggars...??? Just an idea.
 
Remember, for ever dollar you give to a homeless person, 98% of it goes towards an addiction.

the drug dealers are to blame for many people becoming homeless and staying homeless. drugs augment situations; in most cases, they make great lives better and crappy lives worse.
 
Just this afternoon I was standing in line at the outside CIBC ATM next to the bus/streetcar stop at Parliament and Carlton holding my four year old daughter's hand minding out own business and having a laugh when this mid-20s fellow starts asking everyone in line for exactly $2.75. IIRC, it is illegal under the begging laws to do so at ATMs or bus stops. He certainly looked like he could work a proper job.

Lol, I hope you didn't make that up to take a shot at me. The only time I can remember it happening, I was around my mid-teens and I was short a quarter to get into the ttc. Cut me some slack. Also forgive me for taking on the naive stance of wanting to help someone out of a bit of trouble and not taking on the correct stance of "everyone's a scammer".
 

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