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High Park Lofts Condos (Stinson Properties) - Real Estate -

rbt - do some real good research before you buy into 1K. There appear to be a host of problems including tax status for the units. Personally, I would be very very very reluctant to buy into this project when there is so much other stock of apartments in the city.

RBT:

Where did the number "just under $300,000" come from?

You can buy re-sale units (about 30 listed), which in the case of 1KW is the same as new units since it's pretty much a certainty these units are in the rental pool, on MLS for well under $200,000, with the cheapest one (probably one with one of those horrible interior blue atrium views) around $170,000. Another example is a unit on the 20th floor is listed at $179,900.

It is still a very dubious investment, and in my opinion, the prices still hasn't hit bottom.

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyResults.a...+st+w&mp=0-0-0&mrt=0-0-4&trt=2&of=1&ps=10&o=A
 
rbt - do some real good research before you buy into 1K. There appear to be a host of problems including tax status for the units. Personally, I would be very very very reluctant to buy into this project when there is so much other stock of apartments in the city.

Yeah. I'm very leery of the specific project but I really like the concept of a hotel/condo mix. Having a place that can be used a few days a month and rented the rest of the time would likely fit my requirements for the next year pretty well. The alternative is to find a dirt cheap bachelors (see if I can beat $200 a day) or stick with a hotel chain and rack up points.

I hate business travel but to Toronto it won't be so bad.
 
Also, the apartments are tiny, and who knows what amount of litigation the owners will have to pay for in the short to medium turn. Special assessments, anyone?

Look at it this way- buy into the building at a big discount, budget something for litigation, and then decide if the final price roughly equates with a fair market value under normal circumstances.

David Murvish built a wonderful tower. It is a crime that his good named was dragged through the media by that ghoulish fool.
 
Possible litigation is certainly a concern. Also, as far as I know, the question of the classification of the property for tax purposes (residential or commercial) has not yet been resolved.

It's quite a nice-looking building, but I certainly would not buy in it; there is too much risk overhanging it.
 
Possible litigation is certainly a concern. Also, as far as I know, the question of the classification of the property for tax purposes (residential or commercial) has not yet been resolved.

It's quite a nice-looking building, but I certainly would not buy in it; there is too much risk overhanging it.

OW,

At what price would it be attractive to you? Just curious.
 
Good question. As mentioned I wouldn't buy, therefore don't have a figure in mind. But if I were hypothetically considering such an action, "due diligence" would be paramount.

I would enquire as to what the maximum exposure to litigation losses might be. Hard to determine, I know, but get a best estimate.

Are there any other potential exposures (ie., liens) that might jump up and bite you?

I would enquire as to how the rental revenues are calculated and allocated. Is there a "rental pool" in effect, or would I get revenue only if my unit were leased? How is it determined which units get leased and which do not? What has been the actual history of similar situations?

What management fees are applicable, and under what conditions might they change?

Regarding the realty taxes, I would assume, for the time being, that the commercial rate would apply, rather than residential, until such time as this question is finally resolved, including any possible court challenges / appeals.

Based on as much info as I could accumulate, I would try to put together a realistic "pro forma" income and expense projection. I would then capitalize net operating income at a fairly high capitalization rate (11%? 12%?) to reflect the perceived risk. That might result in a rough indicator of what I would pay.

A "gut feel" tells me that the resulting figure from this exercise might not actually make any sense, which would tend to reinforce my impression that it's a poor investment.

To those who are thinking of purchasing at present, best wishes. If everything actually goes well, these people could make a fat windfall profit in a few years, and would be deserving of it.
 
I appreciate your analysis O-Dub. I think I may make a run at it. There has to be some intrinsic value there for basic residential/hospitality space.
 

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