Jitterbugg
New Member
I already 'made an appointment'
I purchased over a year ago. (phase 1)
Maybe you can tell me 'EVERYTHING' ?
I purchased over a year ago. (phase 1)
Maybe you can tell me 'EVERYTHING' ?
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Heintzman Place (Options for Homes) - Real Estate -
- Thread starter o_range
- Start date
junction_parents
Active Member
hmm it's all in the contract, besides, they were very clear with us, our appointment was almost 2 hours, a very enjoyable experience actually
Did you have your lawyer look at the contract? I hope you did
P.S. Sorry I realized you probably did all this... we asked very specific questions and did a lot of research before attending our meeting...
junction_parents
Active Member
I'm in love with our floor plan I hate waiting...
I hate waiting...
Jitterbugg
New Member
Nice floorplan.
I did read over the paperwork and there was not really any mention of 150 units being distributed to people in public housing.
Was this facet of the plan discussed in your meeting? Seriously, I'm not sure if this is accurate information or not. There was a city of Toronto document mentioning this - but it was stated as a 'recommendation' so I don't know if it is true or not.
It appears that there is some sort of special program set up but I don't really know what the scope of it is.
I am not against some sort of social housing aspect - (perhaps 5-10%) but to be honest I get a little uncomfortable when the ratio jumps to over 20% of total units. Some may be happy with more - others less, I guess that is a personal thing. In any case we should have been informed from the start (Clearly - In a way that wouldn't require a lawyer).
I did read over the paperwork and there was not really any mention of 150 units being distributed to people in public housing.
Was this facet of the plan discussed in your meeting? Seriously, I'm not sure if this is accurate information or not. There was a city of Toronto document mentioning this - but it was stated as a 'recommendation' so I don't know if it is true or not.
It appears that there is some sort of special program set up but I don't really know what the scope of it is.
I am not against some sort of social housing aspect - (perhaps 5-10%) but to be honest I get a little uncomfortable when the ratio jumps to over 20% of total units. Some may be happy with more - others less, I guess that is a personal thing. In any case we should have been informed from the start (Clearly - In a way that wouldn't require a lawyer).
junction_parents
Active Member
hmmm did you go to any of the meetings yet? I am not able to attend them because they're in the evenings, maybe you can bring this up and get more accurate info. The next board meeting is on April 2nd, at 7PM.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7443844255
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7443844255
rh-7
New Member
Nice floorplan there, JP. Looks like you'll have a lot of good, usable space. I'm not too sure about the North facing units though, and I'm wondering how much information they disclosed to buyers of North facing units about NRT and the lack of balconies etc... That silo view / NRT smell could be bad news.
junction_parents
Active Member
I'm aware of pretty much all of it
We know exactly what we're getting into p.s. we actually don't want a balcony... 2 small kids..
Jitterbugg
New Member
I haven't been able to make meetings due to distance and work hours, so I sort of rely on info on this site.
Also, I'm probably the last person on earth not on Facebook so I don't know what is going on over there.
Also, I'm probably the last person on earth not on Facebook so I don't know what is going on over there.
junction_parents
Active Member
I recommend joining Facebook if only to join this group
I can't attend meetings at all, this group's members post all the recent info and minutes from the community meetings.From their front page:
This group has been created as a forum for all future or prospective future homeowners of the Options for Homes "Village by High Park" condominium development that is currently planned for late Summer 2009 occupancy in Toronto's Junction neighbourhood at Keele St and Dundas St.
This group is open to future residents, neighbours, or just people who are interested in the building or the Junction. The plan is to post construction photos, and talk about construction issues (upgrades, floor plans, group buys, etc...).
Feel free to post your photos, questions, comments, ideas, and thoughts regarding the Village by High Park. Hopefully, we can begin to create a sense of community (facebook or otherwise) before we even move in!
This group is not affiliated with Options for Homes or Deltera Construction in any way.
tamlin
New Member
Yes, they are regular purchasers, with the exception that they qualify for an additional mortgage -- which must be repaid, with interest proportional to appreciation in market value -- just like the second mortgage which everyone gets automatically. The Options model depends on deferrals rather than subsidies; that's what makes it robust.
Some units are reserved for people who need the additional help. People waiting for public housing are obvious candidates. That's the only correlation I know of.
Jitterbugg
New Member
How many additional mortgages that don't require payments can someone possibly get before it is socialized housing?
If you can afford to 'buy' a 2-bedroom condo and you are on welfare or waiting to get into city housing you are not a purchaser - someone else is purchasing on your behalf. (Even if when you die your kids will get less of the sale price)
This corner is already a low income corner. Is it wise to insert a fairly large concentration of low-income residents? Maybe, maybe not. But it seems like I have unknowingly bought into some sort of steath social housing scheme.
I'm sure it won't be that bad - The place is dirt cheap, so I'll make the best of it, but it gives me a bit of an Icky feeling.
I felt really good about this whole thing but this sort of creeps me out, it gives me less of a warm feeling about it.
If you can afford to 'buy' a 2-bedroom condo and you are on welfare or waiting to get into city housing you are not a purchaser - someone else is purchasing on your behalf. (Even if when you die your kids will get less of the sale price)
This corner is already a low income corner. Is it wise to insert a fairly large concentration of low-income residents? Maybe, maybe not. But it seems like I have unknowingly bought into some sort of steath social housing scheme.
I'm sure it won't be that bad - The place is dirt cheap, so I'll make the best of it, but it gives me a bit of an Icky feeling.
I felt really good about this whole thing but this sort of creeps me out, it gives me less of a warm feeling about it.
rh-7
New Member
I know how you feel, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. The fact of the matter is that every buyer must qualify for a regular mortgage from a bank in order to actually make the purchase. If you're living on welfare, this is not going to work. On the other hand, with the additional funding that Options has, families living on $40,000 a year might be able to afford to own a home rather than renting forever. I don't see this as a bad thing. It'll also represent a small portion of the total purchasers.
Also, the corner is not a low income corner. The average home sells for $465,000, well above the city average which is in the high 300s.
tamlin
New Member
When I purchased a unit, I knew that Options' mission was to make home ownership affordable for people with modest incomes. Initially, I didn't know that some purchasers received additional help on top of the second mortgage, but finding that out didn't bother me. This isn't new; the same has been done for Options' previous projects, and the condos it has developed -- in the Distillery District, by Lawrence West Station, etc. -- have appreciated in value, improved their neighbourhoods, and bear no resemblance whatsoever to public housing slums. In fact, because 95% of the units in Options' buildings are owner-occupied, I would expect them to be better maintained than conventionally developed condos with a high ratio of investors. Also, I've heard that the Village by High Park has attracted more higher income purchasers than previous projects.
Some public housing advocates dislike Options' model because they don't see ownership as a viable alternative to subsidized rentals. As with any other condo, the price of a unit in an Options' building will reflect the market value when it is re-sold (when there's no "Alternatives Mortgage"), so it ceases to be as affordable. That's a problem for people who want each unit to remain affordable indefinitely. Instead, Options uses the proceeds from previous projects to build new affordable units.
Out of curiosity, are you planning on taking the second mortgage? I intend to pay mine off at closing; I don't need the extra down payment, and I don't want the added complexity, nor the restriction of my mortgage options.
Like rh-7 said, purchasers getting additional help still need a minimum income to qualify. I wouldn't assume that low income purchasers will normally hold onto their unit until they die, still dirt poor; owning their home allows them to build wealth, and, like anyone else, they may have reason to sell within several years or so (at which point, the loans are repaid with interest, funding future projects).
Some public housing advocates dislike Options' model because they don't see ownership as a viable alternative to subsidized rentals. As with any other condo, the price of a unit in an Options' building will reflect the market value when it is re-sold (when there's no "Alternatives Mortgage"), so it ceases to be as affordable. That's a problem for people who want each unit to remain affordable indefinitely. Instead, Options uses the proceeds from previous projects to build new affordable units.
Out of curiosity, are you planning on taking the second mortgage? I intend to pay mine off at closing; I don't need the extra down payment, and I don't want the added complexity, nor the restriction of my mortgage options.
junctionist
Senior Member
The houses are expensive, but there is also a lot of low income housing in the apartments on Dundas. So, it would be good to have higher income intensification. I think the Options for Homes project will work out though.
Too bad about the gas station which is staying. There's too much open space on Keele, when it could and should be an extension of the Dundas strip. About the parking, I was talking about the parking spots in front of the building on the eastern side of Keele. It is right beside the lovely three storey bank building, which currently has Money Mart as the tenant.
tamuka3
New Member
That Gas Bar
I wouldn't worry too much about the low income thing in the building... We checked out 4 of Options for homes previous buildings inside and out before we bought in this one. They were all very well maintained, nicely designed, clean buildings. We didn't see any shady people hanging around any of them, either.
My partner and I both have good, middle income jobs, and a large downpayment, and we were just barely able to squeak by the mortgage requirements. I don't know what the extra help is that people are talking about, but you still need to have a fairly decent income and a good credit history to get a mortgage from the bank (which you'll need for 87% of your purchase, minus your downpayment). Also, don't forget, as someone else mentioned: any help at all (including the 2nd mortgage option) are only offered to the very first purchasers of each unit. Once those people sell it, it will go at market value, and therefor not be ideal for any low income people, as it will be just as expensive as any other similar condo in the area.
I've talked to alot of people in the neighborhood, and it sounds like alot of younger (late 20's, early 30's), middle class couples and singles moving in. Personally, I think it's great that middle class and young people are getting a chance to start out on the real estate ladder with something like this.
PPS, One last note though, everyones so down on having "low income" people in the building, and I know the kind of "low income" they're talking about, which I'd rather not have either. But don't forget, lower income doesn't always mean slums... there are lots of people who have a newly aquired or temporarily low income, ie: people who have recently finished university with student loans, self employed people, retired people, and families where one parent has stopped working to raise a child, and are therefor living on one income. I don't see any of those groups as being particularly negative, even though they all might have trouble qualify for a traditional mortgage on a unit big enough to suit their needs.
I wouldn't worry too much about the low income thing in the building... We checked out 4 of Options for homes previous buildings inside and out before we bought in this one. They were all very well maintained, nicely designed, clean buildings. We didn't see any shady people hanging around any of them, either.
My partner and I both have good, middle income jobs, and a large downpayment, and we were just barely able to squeak by the mortgage requirements. I don't know what the extra help is that people are talking about, but you still need to have a fairly decent income and a good credit history to get a mortgage from the bank (which you'll need for 87% of your purchase, minus your downpayment). Also, don't forget, as someone else mentioned: any help at all (including the 2nd mortgage option) are only offered to the very first purchasers of each unit. Once those people sell it, it will go at market value, and therefor not be ideal for any low income people, as it will be just as expensive as any other similar condo in the area.
I've talked to alot of people in the neighborhood, and it sounds like alot of younger (late 20's, early 30's), middle class couples and singles moving in. Personally, I think it's great that middle class and young people are getting a chance to start out on the real estate ladder with something like this.
PPS, One last note though, everyones so down on having "low income" people in the building, and I know the kind of "low income" they're talking about, which I'd rather not have either. But don't forget, lower income doesn't always mean slums... there are lots of people who have a newly aquired or temporarily low income, ie: people who have recently finished university with student loans, self employed people, retired people, and families where one parent has stopped working to raise a child, and are therefor living on one income. I don't see any of those groups as being particularly negative, even though they all might have trouble qualify for a traditional mortgage on a unit big enough to suit their needs.
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