Gun Control

[digi]

No wonder the media is biased because people like you work in the field.

that's the best you could come up with? pathetic...but to be expected.

 

[unimaginative2]

Perhaps, alongside the social programs, you also need the powerfully strong justice system, so that they do not see the drug dealer on the corner making it on easy street, distracting the youngsters from the positive paths of education, perserverence and success. Instead the drug dealer and gang banger is off the street, in jail for a good long time, or deported, or exiled from the projects, leaving a more positive community for everyone else in his wake.

But Beez, in the States they give people 20+ year sentences for drug trafficking, and yet their drug and gang problems are significantly worse than ours. When you grow up feeling aimless and see drugs as your only real financial possibility, you're going to risk even long jail time because you have nothing to lose. Moreover, it's not that easy to get convictions on the people really calling the shots. You can threaten them with life imprisonment, but it's not going to be a deterrent if they don't think they're going to be caught.

 

[Tewder]

That's exactly why I listed those cities. For AB, it is a racial problem. He blames it all on a particular group he has a problem with, while ignoring everything else. I listed those cities (ones with much lower populations of the racial group in question) in order to demonstrate it's not a racial issue.

That is not what I perceive he is doing. We have to also be careful not to choose to read a race issue into everything. In other words, there is an important distinction to make between saying that a majority of gun crime in Toronto/GTA is being committed by blacks vs the majority of blacks are committing gun crime. The former is a reality that must be discussed openly. The latter is false and irresponsible.

As ganjavih stated, no one is in denial. But conducting a witch hunt against an entire community is ridiculous. We don't judge any other crime along racial or ethnic lines. It doesn't make any sense to do it here. Canadians of European background commit the majority of crime in the country...why don't we start targeting them for areas of crime in which they're prevalent?

We do indeed target white people for crime. We know that white straight men are more likely to be serial killers, for example, but it goes without saying that not all straight white men are serial killers. It also goes without saying that not all black people commit gun crime. Be careful of your own 'witch hunts'. Not everybody's intentions are racist. People just need to learn how to better characterize these very sensitive issues.

 

[Mot]

I think everyone is biased, and as soon as they put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard) their bias comes out. I've read the book Blink, and it says that we make longterm biases about people and situation within seconds of first encountering someone or something.

One of the best ways of trying to balance bias is to debate or report from a position that is opposite or against your naturally held view of things. I remember at University where in my Middle East studies course we held a debate over the Jewish West Bank settlements, and one rather ardent Jewish student gave an excellent performance on why the settlements were illegal, which was completely against his personal opinion. I'd day that chap could at least recognise bias.

Good point Beez. I actually used to be in support of gun ownership as a point of law in the American Constitution, then I actually read the 2nd amendment and realized it's quite specific to a militia and not meant across the board.

I do think it's funny that Digi keeps making biased swipes at the American University system where I was taught. Digi thinks it's inferior to the system here. I can't imagine why.

 

[digi]

I do think it's funny that Digi keeps making biased swipes at the American University system where I was taught. Digi thinks it's inferior to the system here. I can't imagine why.

Even more funny is your complete fabrication of a "thought" that you've then attributed to me....did you learn to be such a BS artist in the US too?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don't know Digi, but it sure looks like you're knocking pretty much all US education in the below post.

And today I'll say:

Do you know that "fact" and "bias" are two different words, that mean two different things? Or are you revealing your US education, again?

I don't see how this can not be seen as a biased swipe, as Mot suggests.

 

[digi]

So what?..A US educated person doesn't seem to know the difference between fact and bias...did you miss that part? you quoted it.

 

[syn]

That is not what I perceive he is doing. We have to also be careful not to choose to read a race issue into everything. In other words, there is an important distinction to make between saying that a majority of gun crime in Toronto/GTA is being committed by blacks vs the majority of blacks are committing gun crime. The former is a reality that must be discussed openly. The latter is false and irresponsible.

I disagree.

I've seen enough of ABs rants over the years. If the shooters were primarily white I doubt he'd be going on about the

We do indeed target white people for crime. We know that white straight men are more likely to be serial killers, for example, but it goes without saying that not all straight white men are serial killers.

We do? When is the last time it was suggested there is a crisis in the "white" community? Crime is never viewed in racial/ethnic terms if perpetrated by someone who is a white Canadian (nor should it be).

It also goes without saying that not all black people commit gun crime. Be careful of your own 'witch hunts'. Not everybody's intentions are racist. People just need to learn how to better characterize these very sensitive issues.

You don't appear to be familiar with ABs posting history on the Caribbean/Black community.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Nor with Syn's years-long, legendary knee jerk hysteria at any mention of profound dysfunction and criminality in said community.

 

[syn]

Nor with Syn's years-long, legendary knee jerk hysteria at any mention of profound dysfunction and criminality in said community.

Of course. Because we all know I'm the only one that takes issue with AB's perfectly reasonable comments.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

His comments, overheated as they may be at times, trump your endless strawmen and evasions any day. You've been peddling this shit for years, even as the black bodies kept piling up. A classic example:

"We do? When is the last time it was suggested there is a crisis in the "white" community? Crime is never viewed in racial/ethnic terms if perpetrated by someone who is a white Canadian (nor should it be)."

Nice try. We aren't talking about crime in the "white" community. And incidentally, if you don't think "whites" *aren't* targeted by police, well, there are a lot of Hells Angels, Russians, and Italians who'd disagree with you. Or aren't they "white" enough? Micks, Russkies and Wops don't count, eh?

No, we're talking about black shooters here syn. Black. Jamaican-born and descended blacks. A small, tiny subset of them, to be sure, but let's not beat around the bush here. Address that, for once, without swinging that big stick on your shoulder and coming up with torqued, weasly arguments to evade and dodge what AB is saying, ham-handed as he can be.

Because guess what, when you're a minority (hell, a minority of a minority), you're going to be under the microscope, like it or not, especially when you're leaving bullet holes and bodies all over the place. And when a small number of the population is committing crimes in far larger proportion than their numbers, people are going to ask questions whether they're black or not. So in this case, it's blacks. Too bad, but tough titties. You'd have to be blind or a fool not to see that a subset of black men in this city are *not* responsible for a *huge* amount of crime in this city. Walk into a courthouse lately?

Here's some reading for you:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/majors.php

Hardly a week goes by where Male, Black doesn't constitute at a minimum 60% of the subjects listed. Either there's a *lot* of black guys doing shit, or there's only a few....and are they damned efficient or what? And shootings? Heh...yeah, we all know there's an epidemic of, um, Jew on Jew violence? No? Chinese on Chinese violence? Nigerian on Nigerian violence? Well...no. Hmm. Samoan on Samoan violence? Guess not...so, who could it be then, I wonder? Help me out here. I keep looking for other descriptions in those reports, and black keeps coming up, at least 6 times out of 10. Even the Star reports black suspects now, goodness!

You asked this earlier: "Why don't we just kill them?"

Guess what, they're doing a pretty good job of that themselves.

 

[syn]

His comments, overheated as they may be at times, trump your endless strawmen and evasions any day. You've been peddling this shit for years, even as the black bodies kept piling up. A classic example:

"We do? When is the last time it was suggested there is a crisis in the "white" community? Crime is never viewed in racial/ethnic terms if perpetrated by someone who is a white Canadian (nor should it be)."

Nice try. We aren't talking about crime in the "white" community.
And incidentally, if you don't think "whites" *aren't* targeted by police, well, there are a lot of Hells Angels, Russians, and Italians who'd disagree with you. Or aren't they "white" enough? Micks, Russkies and Wops don't count, eh?

I see. So the Hells Angels are targeted because they're a white criminal organization? Or is it because they're just a criminal organization?

I've never stated that people of other backgrounds aren't targeted. But they aren't targeted because of their ethnicity/racial background. Doing so in this instance would be as asinine as it would be in any other instance.

No, we're talking about black shooters here syn. Black. Jamaican-born and descended blacks. A small, tiny subset of them, to be sure, but let's not beat around the bush here. Address that, for once, without swinging that big stick on your shoulder and coming up with torqued, weasly arguments to evade and dodge what AB is saying, ham-handed as he can be.

I've addressed it many times. But it's pretty obvious AB has other issues.

Because guess what, when you're a minority (hell, a minority of a minority), you're going to be under the microscope, like it or not, especially when you're leaving bullet holes and bodies all over the place. And when a small number of the population is committing crimes in far larger proportion than their numbers, people are going to ask questions whether they're black or not. So in this case, it's blacks. Too bad, but tough titties. You'd have to be blind or a fool not to see that a subset of black men in this city are *not* responsible for a *huge* amount of crime in this city. Walk into a courthouse lately?

Here's some reading for you:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/majors.php

Hardly a week goes by where Male, Black doesn't constitute at a minimum 60% of the subjects listed. Either there's a *lot* of black guys doing shit, or there's only a few....and are they damned efficient or what? And shootings? Heh...yeah, we all know there's an epidemic of, um, Jew on Jew violence? No? Chinese on Chinese violence? Nigerian on Nigerian violence? Well...no. Hmm. Samoan on Samoan violence? Guess not...so, who could it be then, I wonder? Help me out here. I keep looking for other descriptions in those reports, and black keeps coming up, at least 6 times out of 10. Even the Star reports black suspects now, goodness!

You asked this earlier: "Why don't we just kill them?"

Guess what, they're doing a pretty good job of that themselves.

Yes, there is a high percentage in blacks involved in in the crime reports listed. The point is that being black has nothing to do with anything. Crime is a social issue, not a racial one. Attempting to prevent crime by targeting specific racial/ethnic groups will not work. It would also set a very dangerous precedent. The root causes - such as poverty - have to be addressed.

 

[kEiThZ]

I am for gun control....but one place that has intrigued me is Switzerland....one of the highest rates of gun ownership and one of the lowest rates of gun crime. They actually have more stabbings then shootings in that country, where every male has a service rifle or handgun at home.

The Swiss example is what leads to me to believe that it has less to do with law than to do with culture. Could it be that the US with its high rates of social-economic inequality, abject poverty, less restrictive gun laws has created an environment that fosters gun crime?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I am for gun control....but one place that has intrigued me is Switzerland....one of the highest rates of gun ownership and one of the lowest rates of gun crime. They actually have more stabbings then shootings in that country, where every male has a service rifle or handgun at home.

The Swiss example is what leads to me to believe that it has less to do with law than to do with culture. Could it be that the US with its high rates of social-economic inequality, abject poverty, less restrictive gun laws has created an environment that fosters gun crime?

In Switzerland, ALL guns must be still be registered, unlike the U.S. where it is a state by state measure. Click on this link for the list of countries. You will need to scroll down to view Table 1 International Firearms Regulation, Access and Death

 

[Voltz]

Just because a gun registered, obviously makes no difference in weather or not it gets used in a crime, criminals do not care about the law. Crime is higher in the states mostly because of cultural reasons.

It might surprise some people to learn that in the US, in each state that passes a law allowing citizens with proper licenses and training to carry a concealed handgun, violent crime levels drop, some figures show a reduction of up to 20%. Of course the drop can't all be attributed to it, but the key thing is that crime levels have always dropped when these types of laws have been brought in.

And in the vast majority of cases where a state/city/country has brought in more gun control laws/bans, the violent crime rate has gone up.