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GTHA Regional Transit Amalgamation Discussion: Superlinx/Subway Upload

Leo_Chan said:
Should a Finch LRT from Pearson to Malvern been completed before any rapid transit on Sheppard (including Line 4) have been built?
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Yes. Or even an LRT on Sheppard. Sheppard should never had been a subway in 2002 in the first place.

The TTC map would have been both functionally and aesthetically pleasing with the Subways being North/South, and a Finch LRT/Eglinton LRT going east/west across the entire city feeding into the north/south subway lines (including a DRL north)

I think the only reason we will see a Sheppard Subway extension to STC is because of the provincial upload.
 
robmausser said:
Yes. Or even an LRT on Sheppard. Sheppard should never had been a subway in 2002 in the first place.

The TTC map would have been both functionally and aesthetically pleasing with the Subways being North/South, and a Finch LRT/Eglinton LRT going east/west across the entire city feeding into the north/south subway lines (including a DRL north)

I think the only reason we will see a Sheppard Subway extension to STC is because of the provincial upload.
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Ford vs Scarbrough vs subways
 
Sheppard is busier than Finch, serves the main part of North York Centre, connects North York and Scarborough Centres together, and unlike Finch it is one of the most prominent corridors in the Avenues Plan, but somehow people think Finch is the more important corridor. I'll never understand this obsession with Finch.
 
doady said:
Sheppard is busier than Finch, serves the main part of North York Centre, connects North York and Scarborough Centres together, and unlike Finch it is one of the most prominent corridors in the Avenues Plan, but somehow people think Finch is the more important corridor. I'll never understand this obsession with Finch.
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sixrings said:
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I don’t think this is a good argument because Line 4 kind of messes up travel patterns across Sheppard Ave. If one want to go from one end to another, they’ll have to transfer 2 times on Sheppard while transferring only once on Finch. It would be nice to see the ridership difference before Line 4 opened.
 
sixrings said:
I'm on a blackberry. You tell me Sheppard ridership bus numbers before the subway was built then.
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85 Sheppard East on weekdays peaked at about 42,000 in 1989 dropping to 27,000 the following year ... not sure if there was some route rearrangement or something.

It then climbed again to 37,000 or so in 2001, before dropping to about 26,000 in 2002. ... been static at 27,100 for years now. Though the 190 Scarborough Centre Rocket was essentially a Sheppard East service until 2018 with about 10,000 riders.

See historic bus data from 1976 to 2014 from Steve Munro - https://stevemunro.ca/2017/02/03/ttc-surface-ridership-and-service-1976-to-2016/

Ah, here's why it dropped after 1989. Various 85 branches were made the 10 Van Horne, and the 139 Huntingwood in 1989/1990. And then the 190 and 167 Consumers Road in 1991. The 167 and 190 were lumped back into the 85 in 1992.

So for 2001, the combined 10/85/139 ridership ... who knows, as Steve didn't report the old routes. Though if creating 10/139 reduced ridership 11,000 on those 2 routes, presumably then 2001 was at least 48,000. Though hard to say without knowing how frequent they had become (or not become).

The various changes are reported at https://transit.toronto.on.ca/bus/routes/85-sheppard-eas.shtml
 
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So according to Steve, Sheppard had less bus ridership presubway than finch does today (15 years later)
 
Leo_Chan said:
I don’t think this is a good argument because Line 4 kind of messes up travel patterns across Sheppard Ave. If one want to go from one end to another, they’ll have to transfer 2 times on Sheppard while transferring only once on Finch. It would be nice to see the ridership difference before Line 4 opened.
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There's the terminus effect, transferring at Finch gives you a (slim) chance of getting a seat. If you are at NW Scarborough, taking the Sheppard route means you have to transfer at Don Mills, and then Sheppard-Yonge onto a packed train. No incentives whatsoever - well, perhaps on the odd ice/snowstorm day when buses struggle at the East Don ravine.
 
I don't think there"s any secrecy requirements if there's no immediate taxation measures or other announcements that would effect trading on the markets.
 
jje1000 said:
So legislation this spring, and a full takeover in 2020 if things go according to the Conservative's plans.
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Per the Board of Trade remarks today the upload is:
- NEW SUBWAYS ONLY
- building, developing and planning for subways done in the Province
- Province will own rails and stations
- TTC operates day to day

Benefits for building new subway
- financing
- Province can make zoning orders
- Province can compel utilities to prioritize relocation orders
- cut red tape
- not tied to status quo

Note....they did not mention taking over existing subways. New Subways only (but of course devil is in the detail...let's see tomorrow in the legislation...if the current legislation is just for new or will they need additional legislation for existing)

I did not listen to the Q&A from the journalists
 
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Yurek seems exceptionally well versed on the transit file and very importantly clearly stated that the the TTC will maintain the service and fares from the currentéfuture lines and made mention of how the huge oncoming 'state of good repair' expenses will be the province's problem as he noted that it's a expense that the city just can't afford. In other words he is very cognizant of not only the huge costs of initial infrastructure but operational ones as well. He also stressed fare integration as a key component that needs immediate attention.

First impression leave me to believe that he is far better versed and competent as transportation minister than Del Luca {sp?} who was a photo-op queen but had no real grasp of the portfolio.
 
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