GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[ARG1]

Hourly to Kitchener as the other person stated.

Right now as it stands I dont know if there is demand for 30 minutes. Probably need to wait and see how hourly generates interest.

Kitchener-Waterloo is not only a major university town, but also a rapidly growing tech hub with major companies like Google setting up shop. As such even if there isn't demand today, there absolutely will be demand within 5-10 years.

It also helps that as a major uni town, it has absolutely massive bursts of demand. Earlier this year I had to travel from Highway 407 Station to Waterloo on Sunday, and experienced how a completely packed double decker 41 fully emptied out with everyone marching out to get on the 30A at Bramalea (for the love of god bring back the 25F already). It also didn't help that the ride itself was slow due to all of the people driving to KW on the 401. It wasn't even a long weekend or reading week or anything, this was just a run of the mill Sunday.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Kitchener-Waterloo is not only a major university town, but also a rapidly growing tech hub with major companies like Google setting up shop. As such even if there isn't demand today, there absolutely will be demand within 5-10 years.

It also helps that as a major uni town, it has absolutely massive bursts of demand. Earlier this year I had to travel from Highway 407 Station to Waterloo on Sunday, and experienced how a completely packed double decker 41 fully emptied out with everyone marching out to get on the 30A at Bramalea (for the love of god bring back the 25F already). It also didn't help that the ride itself was slow due to all of the people driving to KW on the 401. It wasn't even a long weekend or reading week or anything, this was just a run of the mill Sunday.

That also has significant on line local traffic potential if the service is anything like frequent. This is a corridor that needs frequency independent of it's capacity requirements.

 

[crs1026]

That also has significant on line local traffic potential if the service is anything like frequent. This is a corridor that needs frequency independent of it's capacity requirements.

Stop-and-go traffic on 401 from Tremaine to Town Line is now a 2-way, all-day, 7/week reality. That line could fill 30 minute trains today, 15 at peak. Ridiculous that ML isn't moving faster.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

Stop-and-go traffic on 401 from Tremaine to Town Line is now a 2-way, all-day, 7/week reality. That line could fill 30 minute trains today, 15 at peak. Ridiculous that ML isn't moving faster.

- Paul

MTO is currently conducting the final EA required to widen the 401 to 10-lanes (4+HOV in each direction) from Milton to Cambridge

Highway 401 Milton

 

[nfitz]

MTO is currently conducting the final EA required to widen the 401 to 10-lanes (4+HOV in each direction) from Milton to Cambridge

Highway 401 Milton

There's a thread about this project at - https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...ighway-8-to-highway-410-mto-u-c-planned.10054

Ericmacm mentioned the newish website in a post last April - https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...0-mto-u-c-planned.10054/page-106#post-2080438

 

[Metroscapes]

Kitchener-Waterloo is not only a major university town, but also a rapidly growing tech hub with major companies like Google setting up shop. As such even if there isn't demand today, there absolutely will be demand within 5-10 years.

It also helps that as a major uni town, it has absolutely massive bursts of demand. Earlier this year I had to travel from Highway 407 Station to Waterloo on Sunday, and experienced how a completely packed double decker 41 fully emptied out with everyone marching out to get on the 30A at Bramalea (for the love of god bring back the 25F already). It also didn't help that the ride itself was slow due to all of the people driving to KW on the 401. It wasn't even a long weekend or reading week or anything, this was just a run of the mill Sunday.

On top of that, Kitchener has pushed hard to get significant housing approvals. The demand will certainly grow with this push for more housing around the LRT that with interchange directly with the new GO station at King.

‘We know that we’re in a housing crisis.’ Kitchener streamlines approvals to move faster on new homes

City hall leans on new software, more planners, virtual meetings and streamlined procedures to speed housing approvals

www.therecord.com

‘First-of-its-kind’: Kitchener adopts ambitious new planning rules guiding growth, adding affordable units

Kitchener councillors have approved new planning rules that will guide growth around transit stations and require developers to include affordable units in some new projects.

www.therecord.com

City of Kitchener set to waive property taxes for affordable housing providers

The program was introduced by the Region of Waterloo earlier this year. More affordable housing is also on the way in Waterloo.

kitchener.citynews.ca

 

[SkylineHorizons]

A Metrolinx presentation to the City of Brampton included this diagram suggesting that at build-out (4-8 years in the future) there would be 4 tracks - two over the grade separation for GO and two under the separation for CN. The Credit bridge is currently built for 3 tracks, with 2 installed.
View attachment 595444

Interesting, so the plan is to go over(not under as I assumed) the CN "only" tracks and to add an additional pier for a 4th track over the Credit. Pretty big job. That 3rd track through Brampton will go on the north side I assume?

 

[guavadelic]

Kitchener-Waterloo is not only a major university town, but also a rapidly growing tech hub with major companies like Google setting up shop. As such even if there isn't demand today, there absolutely will be demand within 5-10 years.

It also helps that as a major uni town, it has absolutely massive bursts of demand. Earlier this year I had to travel from Highway 407 Station to Waterloo on Sunday, and experienced how a completely packed double decker 41 fully emptied out with everyone marching out to get on the 30A at Bramalea (for the love of god bring back the 25F already). It also didn't help that the ride itself was slow due to all of the people driving to KW on the 401. It wasn't even a long weekend or reading week or anything, this was just a run of the mill Sunday.

It's really a shame provincial governments haven't prioritized this corridor and provided higher frequency service yet. It had the population and demand to support it for years.

This rail corridor is really the sleeping giant of the transit system and would at least be just as important as the lakeshore west line was to communities along that route.

 

[Bojaxs]

It's really a shame provincial governments haven't prioritized this corridor and provided higher frequency service yet. It had the population and demand to support it for years.

This rail corridor is really the sleeping giant of the transit system and would at least be just as important as the lakeshore west line was to communities along that route.

I'm sure the provincial government would love to increase frequency on the Kitchener line. Unfortunately CN owns the tracks between Bramalea and Georgetown.

 

[urbancog]

Interesting, so the plan is to go over(not under as I assumed) the CN "only" tracks and to add an additional pier for a 4th track over the Credit. Pretty big job. That 3rd track through Brampton will go on the north side I assume?

The existing tracks drop from ~250m to ~246m west of WCB, which Metrolinx stated in their expropriation defense assists with elevating their tracks over the grade separation.

It'll be interesting to see whether they add a 4th track to the Credit bridge. The original 1-track bridge:

was expanded to have 3-track capacity (with 2 installed) by expanding the size of the piers with concrete masonry and changing their shape from vertical to slightly wedge-shaped:

You can see where the 3rd track could be "easily" added to the south side by adding new bearings and dropping on bridge sections. Presumably a 4th track could be added by further expanding the section of the concrete block piers, not trivial work but not particularly complex.

The 3rd track in Brampton will actually be on the south side once the existing bus station and the building above have been removed, with this image of the proposal by City of Brampton:

 

[Metroscapes]

The 3rd track in Brampton will actually be on the south side once the existing bus station and the building above have been removed, with this image of the proposal by City of Brampton:
View attachment 595730

I didn't realize that proposal existed! if a bus loop is there, I don't see why they can't squeeze a fourth track in there.

 

[guavadelic]

I'm sure the provincial government would love to increase frequency on the Kitchener line. Unfortunately CN owns the tracks between Bramalea and Georgetown.

Agreed, but there was a plan I believe to construct the freight bypass that would have facilitated this frequent service. This government scrapped it soon as they came in for cost reasons, even with a likely solid business case.

There doesn't seem to be the same level of fiscal concern to build the 413, however. Disappointing.

 

[Bojaxs]

Agreed, but there was a plan I believe to construct the freight bypass that would have facilitated this frequent service. This government scrapped it soon as they came in for cost reasons, even with a likely solid business case.

There doesn't seem to be the same level of fiscal concern to build the 413, however. Disappointing.

I'm assuming you're referring to the 407 freight bypass? I remember the Ontario Liberals making the announcement, but no one from CN was at the announcement. I don't think anything was agreed on yet either. They just announced that CN and the government had an "understanding".

I'm wondering if the flyover they recently announced west of Georgetown would still be necessary if the 407 freight bypass had been constructed. The bypass would eliminate the conflict point between CN and GO west of Georgetown, probably making the flyover no longer necessary.

 

[nfitz]

I'm wondering if the flyover they recently announced west of Georgetown would still be necessary if the 407 freight bypass had been constructed. The bypass would eliminate the conflict point between CN and GO west of Georgetown, probably making the flyover no longer necessary.

I'd go with a freight bypass isn't necessary with a flyover.

A bypass would have been astronomically more expensive. The rail overpass for that might (or might not) have been a bit cheaper - but not that much cheaper. And there's a huge cost to grade the rest of it.

And how many new overpasses? Bramalea Road, Dixie Road, Tomken Road, 410 (probably 8 overpasses with the massive interchange), Kennedy, Hurontario, McLaughlin, Mavis, Financial, Mississauga, Heritage, Winston Churchill, Ninth Line ... the 407 ... and where then? Along the CP alignment, widening several more structures?

Metrolinx estimated that the bypass would require 35 new bridges, the relocation of 17 hydro towers, and 30-km of new rail alignment. The 2015 estimate to both CN and CP was $5 billion, and surely it would be similar now even if was only CN.

I really don't know why there was any discussion of the bypass after that report came out, if the flyover fixed the issues, much more cheaply.

 

[urbancog]

A key driver for the 407 Freight Bypass was to support construction of a high-speed line from Toronto to Kitchener and London that would have needed two tracks in the current Halton Sub between Bramalea and Georgetown. Once the HSR project was dropped, by DF, the requirements for additional track became more manageable and an IBC was generated specifically to drop the bypass.

https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1663237677/Documents/Metrolinx/20191122_BoardMtg_Kitchener_IBC.pdf