GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[steveintoronto]

isn't that the full ReR rollout plan.

Ie. trains to/from Bramalea every 15 minutes 7 days a week all day....and trains every 60 minutes to Mt. Pleasant during the day (presumuably only working days).

Here's the conflict if the RER chart is correct:
"Mt Pleasant is getting 28 weekend trains". Not according to the RER chart.

March 31? The next day is April Fool's Day...I guess it's all a joke...Until things are sorted out with CN, not much of anything is going past Bramalea on an increased basis. Perhaps a couple more runs to Georgetown, and Kitchener, but no regular service outside of peak.

 

[steveintoronto]

"Del Duca Days"

El Duca "made the trains run on time"....sorry, about 3/4 of a century late...

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

April 1 is the start of fiscal year 2017-2018....to the user/consumer it does not matter but if anyone is going to say a promise of fiscal 2016-17 is "kept" then, technically, those schedule changes would have to be in effect and trains running by March 31

Ha. Fair enough.

El Duca "made the trains run on time"....sorry, about 3/4 of a century late...

lol. yes, but then it was only half the time too!

 

[dowlingm]

Is there any sign of some of that additional power showing up to pull some of these new trains - i.e. the MP54ACs?

 

[reaperexpress]

I hope you're right, I'd like to see a news release on that, can't find one, but if there is, it contradicts this:

I don't see the contradiction. The diagram shows the goal while the chart shows the plan. We're not jumping directly from no service to AD2W 4tph local + 1tph express. First, in 2017, we're getting hourly local service to Mount Pleasant or Bramalea or whatever (28 trips per day), and that will be gradually increased until we have reached the service goal from the diagram with 4tph local + 1tph express all day.

At this point, RER isn't a specific service, it's a state of mind. Namely that the GTA will have frequent all-day service along its passenger rail lines. There will be no magic moment when we suddenly say "We have RER now". Maybe we could say that electrification is that point, but it's really a combination of a variety of characteristics including station spacing, service frequency, service variety and vehicle type. So it's misleading to claim any one proposed service pattern as "the RER service" - there's really a whole range of them.

And as annoying as it is to have a lack of detail from Metrolinx, it would simply be irresponsible for them to put out a detailed plan and follow it to the letter. Instead it makes more sense to implement it progressively and adjust the plan based on how they observe it to actually work in practice. So they're doing the right thing by detailing only the five-year plan, which gets the ball rolling by introducing a basic level of all-day two-way service on some new lines. Then with the results from that experience to build on, Metrolinx can make an expansion plan for the following five years and so on.

 

[TransitBart]

And as annoying as it is to have a lack of detail from Metrolinx, it would simply be irresponsible for them to put out a detailed plan and follow it to the letter. Instead it makes more sense to implement it progressively and adjust the plan based on how they observe it to actually work in practice. So they're doing the right thing by detailing only the five-year plan, which gets the ball rolling by introducing a basic level of all-day two-way service on some new lines. Then with the results from that experience to build on, Metrolinx can make an expansion plan for the following five years and so on.

I understand and agree with all that you have said. And at this stage it would be worse to publish a "we're going to do this" and fail. No leader wants that.

But I see my colleagues and friends wrestling with questions in life like "should I move to Pickering" or "should I buy a new car?"

Let's say Metrolinx published a key changes in 180 days each calendar quarter.

Then you could plan your life to the extent that you'd say, "well, I don't need a new car, I'll switch to GO" - say there were a new morning train coming on-stream.

Or if you accepted a new position in downtown Toronto and you lived in Milton, and all-day were on the horizon, you could know that you would be battling traffic for a few months, but not for the rest of your career.

The lack of transparency is affecting people's lives. Outside of their jobs and the income derived therefrom, I believe that the transportation issues are the largest issues in people's lives.

They are in mine. I plan everything around when I know I can get there without being in rush hour. Either the traffic is too unpredictable, or the subway is packed.

 

[ssiguy2]

This is solely political pressure. GO needs something to show for before the election.

They still have to pay wages, fuel etc before the next election so how exactly are they doing this? Everyone is screaming for operational funding including GO but somehow GO is massively increasing it's service but has yet to receive corresponding increases in operation revenue. These trains, per-person, are going to be much more expensive to run than the standard GO commuter lines so where is this money coming from?

 

[ssiguy2]

^^^ Don't know how I screwed up the above post making it look like one long quote but whatever, how is GO paying for these services?

 

[crs1026]

The lack of transparency is affecting people's lives.

This is totally a political thing. ML does know, but is under gag orders not to release ahead of the political process. This all came about after the original decision for Niagara and Barrie weekend service leaked out before the Minister could hold a photo op.. Since then, GO isn't even allowed to give connecting transit operators advance notice of service changes, and they have to play catchup, and take the heat from riders when the connections fail at first.

It's doubly frustrating to not know what will be worked on in the longer term. Bowmanville is a good example. The EA was done years ago, but through all the last couple of years' planning documents and Board presentations, ML gave no sign that this was being advanced through the approvals process. I remain suspicious that the political level advanced this one because it was shovel ready, not because it was highest priority on the to-do list. Same with Niagara service. (Both are good things, but we should have seen them climbing to the top of the to-do list as the higher priority items were ticked off)

Whatever happened to last year's review of the Big Move, anyways?

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Since then, GO isn't even allowed to give connecting transit operators advance notice of service changes, and they have to play catchup, and take the heat from riders when the connections fail at first.

- Paul

Actually, Metrolinx (and GO before that) have been very poor at communicating impending service changes to the connecting transit services for the better part of 20 years, and likely well before that as well. There have been many instances over the past several years where the connecting agencies only found out about the service changes AFTER they'd been publicly announced by GO/Metrolinx.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[crs1026]

Is there any sign of some of that additional power showing up to pull some of these new trains - i.e. the MP54ACs?

This flyer is circa 2010 from the Weston Community's objection to the original UPE proposal.

Here we sit, seven years later.....

- Paul

 

[SaugeenJunction]

This flyer is circa 2010 from the Weston Community's objection to the original UPE proposal.

Here we sit, seven years later.....

- Paul

View attachment 95008

The NIMBYism in Weston is gross. Diesel trains aren't that bad, and people along other GO lines (like Lakeshore Lines) have lived beside hourly (now half hourly) service for years and the apocalypse hasn't happened yet. Unfortunately this community made a big fuss about nothing.

 

[steveintoronto]

The NIMBYism in Weston is gross. Diesel trains aren't that bad, and people along other GO lines (like Lakeshore Lines) have lived beside hourly (now half hourly) service for years and the apocalypse hasn't happened yet. Unfortunately this community made a big fuss about nothing.

I agree, albeit I take Paul's point to refer to the *inaction of promises* on electrification and utilization in that capacity of the Weston Corridor. No doubt, any increased diesel emissions along the rail RoW is a fraction of equivalent vehicles they replace on the road. Weston Rd is hardly a modicum of clean air.

Back to what I take of Paul's point buttressed by Dan's: It's to the point that Metrolinx not only don't do as they have promised for electrification of that corridor, they then use that same laggardness to discount the viability of using *clean diesel* to run a pre-RER service. Any other city of our size and density would look at that and wonder WTF?

It's highly contentious to state this, because it might be 'out of the pot and into the fire'...but I think it's well past time for the TTC and Metrolinx alike to devolve form their political masters, integrate, and do GTHA transit on a super-regional basis.

And that comes down to Queen's Park re-writing legislation to allow it. Tum de dum, de dum...(I must admit to allowing Paul's and Dan's points upset me...how long can this go on for? This is not the way to move the region forward...)

 

[crs1026]

Now I must admit it's pretty cool to see Barrie getting All day two way trains on weekends (frequency is bad but not that bad) . Is the only reason the same service doesn't exist during weekdays a lack of rolling stock?

Rolling stock is not the issue. GO has yards full of idle equipment during off peak hours.

Up until now, none of GO's lines other than Lakeshore have had two-way capability.....since the 1950's and beyond, they were mostly single track. Signalling systems only arrived in the last decade in places, and sidings weren't spaced to support GO. GO is finally getting enough passing capability to run two-way service.

GO simply hasn't been on the ball in getting this going in an organized way. One valid excuse has been the extra rapid addition of so many peak service trains, which has gobbled up all the new crews as fast as GO/BBD could hire them. Even so, I question whether hiring was jumped on well enough or aggressively enough. For instance, the service plan for GTS post-UPE was documented in 2010 and didn't change between then and UPE's opening.....but GO didn't have enough crews ready when UPE opened.....that's five years' lead time.

Each route has had some logistical or infrastructure issue that holds up the whole line - another example is the makeshift station at Etobicoke North, which despite the huge expenditure on GTS can't support 2-way at rush hour.

It has been excruciating watching GO fill in the pieces one at a time. The good news is, we are finally close to having these services. That's a real step forwards.

- Paul

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Now I must admit it's pretty cool to see Barrie getting All day two way trains on weekends (frequency is bad but not that bad) . Is the only reason the same service doesn't exist during weekdays a lack of rolling stock?

Rolling stock is not the issue. GO has yards full of idle equipment during off peak hours.

Up until now, none of GO's lines other than Lakeshore have had two-way capability.....since the 1950's and beyond, they were mostly single track. Signalling systems only arrived in the last decade in places, and sidings weren't spaced to support GO. GO is finally getting enough passing capability to run two-way service.

GO simply hasn't been on the ball in getting this going in an organized way. One valid excuse has been the extra rapid addition of so many peak service trains, which has gobbled up all the new crews as fast as GO/BBD could hire them. Even so, I question whether hiring was jumped on well enough or aggressively enough. For instance, the service plan for GTS post-UPE was documented in 2010 and didn't change between then and UPE's opening.....but GO didn't have enough crews ready when UPE opened.....that's five years' lead time.

Each route has had some logistical or infrastructure issue that holds up the whole line - another example is the makeshift station at Etobicoke North, which despite the huge expenditure on GTS can't support 2-way at rush hour.

It has been excruciating watching GO fill in the pieces one at a time. The good news is, we are finally close to having these services. That's a real step forwards.

- Paul

Yup. It has been slow reece, but we are getting there. By 2018. We should have all day service on Stoufville, Barrie, Mt Pleasant at least. Milton should be on the table, unless they liberals want to lose seats out there. I hate the slow pace myself, but we are moving forward which is key.