GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Jonny5]

So everyone is saying that GO transit after 50 years, can't make a schedule change, sign it and get the right train to the right platform at Union Station? Something is fishy.

GO PR has now admitted that train entered Union on the wrong track, which is a scary idea. It was supposed to be a Georgetown train and they were forced to change it on the fly to Lakeshore, which of course caused a whole cascade of delays.

 

[steveintoronto]

GO PR has now admitted that train entered Union on the wrong track, which is a scary idea. It was supposed to be a Georgetown train and they were forced to change it on the fly to Lakeshore, which of course caused a whole cascade of delays.

Unfortunately, very few are going to believe GO PR, since so many other trains were also delayed and having problems. My cynicism asks: 'How long did it take them to embellish that story?'

Last platform shuffle kerfuffle, I wanted to post: 'Don't they run this through a computer model before doing it?' But then I thought, 'that's silly, of course they must'...lol...but you really have to wonder...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Unfortunately, very few are going to believe GO PR, since so many other trains were also delayed and having problems. My cynicism asks: 'How long did it take them to embellish that story?'

Last platform shuffle kerfuffle, I wanted to post: 'Don't they run this through a computer model before doing it?' But then I thought, 'that's silly, of course they must'...lol...but you really have to wonder...

Honestly do they even need to run a model (as they should)? Decent operations should have a clue as to what their capabilities are. Like decent station management should foresee platform crowding and prepare for - not react to - it. The org is off the ball and have the caught in a headlight look.

As to the bit about wrong track - taken at face value (which I don't) sadder thing is this is at least the second instance I am aware of in the last few months.

GO PR has now admitted that train entered Union on the wrong track, which is a scary idea. It was supposed to be a Georgetown train and they were forced to change it on the fly to Lakeshore, which of course caused a whole cascade of delays.

The scarier idea is that the 1705 Barrie on 9/10 travels in the opposite direction. I will let that sink in

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Honestly do they even need to run a model (as they should)?
AoD

Which begs the question, just exactly how do they assign the tracks? Is it by automation, or is it arbitrary? Brace yourself for a litany of more lame excuses as to what went wrong and why.

 

[mdrejhon]

Get that new GO operations centre running at Oakville up and running, Promto.

Get video signs at ALL entrances to ALL the GO platforms, like 25-27, to say which train is there.

Get some automation added.

Support one-click on-the-fly emergency platform reassignments that broadcasts to train drivers, train cab screens, schedule video boards, and platform entrance videoboards.

Then hopefully a platform change is a routine event with only minor delays.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Get that new GO operations centre running at Oakville up and running, Promto.

Get video signs at ALL entrances to ALL the GO platforms, like 25-27, to say which train is there.

Get some automation added.

Support one-click on-the-fly emergency platform reassignments that broadcasts to train drivers, train cab screens, schedule video boards, and platform entrance videoboards.

Then hopefully a platform change is a routine event with only minor delays.

The problems are more fundamental than that - the platform arrangement as is, the lack of high quality access points and the lack of crush space for waiting lead to a condition where any platform change is a sh*tshow. People have already optimized their station usage to the schedule - anything that deviates will by default create chaos at rush. No way around that.

Beyond that point, what's needed are display signs on the train, outside the train, extensive signage that is actually legible and positioned in a way that does not interrupt flow, plus PA that is actually audible above the roaring diesel locomotives. All need to be updated constantly instead of the lag that make what little of the current system useless. This is basic stuff - it shouldn't take customer complaints and chaos to come to these conclusions. Just take platform signage for example - did they actually check out the legibility of the signs in high sun (oh wait, I forgot - it was supposed to be under the roof by now)? Why are there no signage facing the Bay east teamway staircase? Did they not realize people actually board from there?

AoD

 

[crs1026]

Actually, considering the number of trains that go in and out at rush hour, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

I'm surprised however that the crew didn't question the track routing, and keep the doors closed, until they had confirmation that they were where they were supposed to be. Just as the passengers expect their train to be in the same place every day, the crews have advance information about where they are planned to be routed to.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Actually, considering the number of trains that go in and out at rush hour, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

I'm surprised however that the crew didn't question the track routing, and keep the doors closed, until they had confirmation that they were where they were supposed to be. Just as the passengers expect their train to be in the same place every day, the crews have advance information about where they are planned to be routed to.

- Paul

The crew didn't even know they've made a mistake (nor was there any indication at the time that the operators at large did) - it was only after a good chunk of the riders have boarded the train where the issue came to head.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think the main issue is the crew operating the train didn't know where the train was going.

There is that - but also no one seem to be in a position to tell them they're wrong until after the fact, which is more disturbing.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

On another note, thankfully this one was intercepted

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-counter-alleged-terror-plot/article31375034/

AoD

 

[Jonny5]

extensive signage that is actually legible and positioned in a way that does not interrupt flow, plus PA that is actually audible above the roaring diesel locomotives.

I want to reinforce that point. The few platform destination signs they actually have are obstructed by various construction paraphernalia, modifications and columns, to support the new glass roof. I simply could not see one where I was literally stuck in a horde of confused people both trying to board and disembark. The PA was a joke. No one could hear what they were saying. You also couldn't hear what the CSA was saying if you were more than 2 feet from a train door. It was a game of telephone with people asking "what was that?" and getting mixed up and wrong information and passing it along to people further back.

 

[44 North]

The best part - apparently some passengers had to show the CSR the time change pamphlets in order for them to realize their information (i.e. it was a Georgetown train) was wrong. That's how awful it is.

AoD

Seems pretty clear to me that the problems boil down to our use of the dated sexagesimal time system. If we were smart we'd adopt the metric time system. Remember this moment, people, eighty past two on April 47th.

On another note, thankfully this one was intercepted

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-counter-alleged-terror-plot/article31375034/

AoD

Scary stuff indeed. Not sure yet where this fellow's targets were, or how credible a threat he and his IED were. But any kind of terrorist activity is the last thing this city needs.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I want to reinforce that point. The few platform destination signs they actually have are obstructed by various construction paraphernalia, modifications and columns, to support the new glass roof. I simply could not see one where I was literally stuck in a horde of confused people both trying to board and disembark. The PA was a joke. No one could hear what they were saying. You also couldn't hear what the CSA was saying if you were more than 2 feet from a train door. It was a game of telephone with people asking "what was that?" and getting mixed up and wrong information and passing it along to people further back.

I hate to tell you that even if you can see it, it won't be of much use - the electronic signage on 9/10 was showing 1715 LSWX as "on time" at 1715 yesterday (when the train itself hasn't even appeared on the platform) - and when it was finally updated, it showed it still as 1720 LSWX delayed. As a rider, you simply couldn't depend on them in off-nominal situations.

(At 1715 - the scheduled departure time of the LSWX on 9/10)

(At 1723 - immediately after onboard announcement by CSR that it is the Georgetown train)

Whoever is responsible for the Union Station fiasco should be fired. Twice. Un retard indeed.

AoD

 

[mdrejhon]

The problems are more fundamental than that - the platform arrangement as is, the lack of high quality access points and the lack of crush space for waiting lead to a condition where any platform change is a sh*tshow. People have already optimized their station usage to the schedule - anything that deviates will by default create chaos at rush. No way around that.

Beyond that point, what's needed are display signs on the train, outside the train, extensive signage that is actually legible and positioned in a way that does not interrupt flow, plus PA that is actually audible above the roaring diesel locomotives. All need to be updated constantly instead of the lag that make what little of the current system useless. This is basic stuff - it shouldn't take customer complaints and chaos to come to these conclusions. Just take platform signage for example - did they actually check out the legibility of the signs in high sun (oh wait, I forgot - it was supposed to be under the roof by now)? Why are there no signage facing the Bay east teamway staircase? Did they not realize people actually board from there?

AoD

Yes, throw on additional signage and a complete Union complex wayfinding reset (teamways, sidewalks, PATH, halls, station, etc). After revitalization there will be lots more loiter space for long-waiters, short-wait, and about-to-board people, so the wayfinding total reboot needs to be optimized for that.

Even a wayfinding optimizer could be done today, As it stands, for loiter space, we are functioning on literally less than 1/4 the square footage of post-revitalization Union.

Integrate it all properly, too. Keep the trains and station/platforms automatically in sync.

Yes, an unexpected platform change is going to always be disruptive, but it should be far less disruptive than today.

 

[mdrejhon]

Bonus Dream:

Better yet, make the system so flexible that during future mistakes, the Georgetown train can become the LSW train, and vice versa.

<future-scenario>

- T+0m0s
- "we got over 1000 LSW boarders on a kitchener train mistakenly berthed at this platform"
- decision made to swap
- *clicks swap train procedure*
- displays go "Pending update..." (time boards, platform entrances, platform displays, on-board displays)
- Permission request automatically dispatched for granting. greenlighted by operations/CTC within 30 seconds (train capability and fuel verified remotely, berth accessibility to each route, automatic verification of cascading delays can be kept limited, etc)
- T+1min44s
- Still-approaching LSW train now earlier told to approach Kitchener currently-vacant original berth instead -- finally clears critical crossover. Train did not miss critical crossover, makes it towards reassigned berth
- All permissions green. Berth swap greenlighted
- All displays instantly simultaneously sync, Union wide. Confused commuters now see platform numbers, including video signs at every platform entrance.
- T+2m1s
- Currently berthed Kitchener train now becomes LSW train
- Crew was earlier automatically messaged of developing situation (on some kind of a dispatch display), told to swap cabs if needed, if crew is supposed to stick to route. Thanks to Bay Concourse stairs neing near the cab, cab crew swap lasts only 30 seconds. Enough time left for basic cab check of already-operational train already confirmed to have enough fuel for its new route
- T+4m31s
- train departs under 5 mins late
- Cascading delay: Only three trains delayed by this hypothetical juggle act, longest delay was 4 minutes and 31 seconds due to crew swap. All other trains were simply affected by unexpected crossover activity underweny only a minor waiting delay in the upgraded USRC. 4,000 fewer angry commuters.

</future-scenario>

Science fiction? Maybe not in ten or fifteen years...

The flexibility is good for all kinds of other (more frequent) reasons, we need better Union operations during RER.