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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

So, those people travelling from Langstaff are supposed to take the GO Train to St. Clair, Eglinton and even Finch? Hardly.

The Richmond Hill line certainly has its own merits for 2WAD service, but not as a relief outlet for the Yonge Line. They serve very different markets.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

You may disagree but Metrolinx is examining the Richmond Hill line as part of the Yonge Relief study.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...26_BoardMtg_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study_EN.pdf
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/reliefstudy/201404_YRNS_Web_Feedback_EN.pdf
 
and it will provide marginal relief, which will hardly be worth the large price tag attached to it. For comparison, the Stouffville line is expected to provide a similar level of relief.
 
I disagree. The Richmond Hill line would offer a much more affordable alternative a an all day option than extending the Yonge subway north of Finch.

The Yonge subway extension may be several times more expensive than upgrading the Richmond Hill line, but it also has orders of magnitude more benefits.

The subway has excellent transit connections, allowing people to easily travel all over the city. The GO Train could potentially connect to the Sheppard Line at Leslie Station, but that's about it. It's deep in the valley, making any decent connections impractical.

The subway would probably average around 38 km/h, which would make trip from RHC to Union about 35 minutes. The Richmond Hill line currently takes 36 minutes from Langstaff to Union, and there isn't much we can do to cut that down because the sharp curves are geographically constrained.

The main justification for the subway is actually development, something the GO expansion offers little potential for. People and businesses will be much more attracted to a connection to the entire city than they would by a connection to Union and maybe Leslie. And of course the subway has far more stops around which to develop. For example, all three municipalities at Yonge and Steeles have plans for a high density node there.

And I haven't even started on the inherent flooding issues with the RH line.

Having a "smarttrack" type service on the Richmond Hill line to Langstaff station would offer significant relief to the Yonge Line and negate the need to extend the Yonge subway north.

"Relief" is a concept which is only relevant during rush hour. There is plenty of capacity available in the subway the rest of the day.

I never said we should stop running the Richmond Hill line, or that we shouldn't improve service. Increasing peak-hour peak-direction frequency would indeed be helpful from a subway congestion standpoint.
 
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Has WiFi service on GO Trains ever been something talked about before? It seems weird that it doesn't exist.
GO Train runs almost completely out in the open. I've had no problem when using GO, turning my mobile into a wireless hotspot, and using it to feed my laptop - on one occasion even using the power supply in the train, as my laptop battery was flat.

WiFi is useful in the subway, as it's underground, so can't do that.

I wouldn't think the complexities of trying to get WiFi running reliably on moving vehicles, and being able to provide enough throughput to keep customers happy, is really a business GO wants to get into. And unlike the subway, they are unlikely to be able to find a partner who is willing to shoulder most of the costs, because unlike the subway, there's the cellular network available
 
I wouldn't think the complexities of trying to get WiFi running reliably on moving vehicles, and being able to provide enough throughput to keep customers happy, is really a business GO wants to get into. And unlike the subway, they are unlikely to be able to find a partner who is willing to shoulder most of the costs, because unlike the subway, there's the cellular network available

One large benefit of WIFI on the train is that people might buy their tickets electronically after boarding with no excuse that their data connection wasn't working.

Boston has used this on their commuter rail. Installing Charlie Card readers was deemed too expensive and this (and writing phone/tablet apps to make the purchase fast/easy) was cheaper. Customers are happy, ticket lines are short as many use the service, and the installation cost was quite low.

The implementation is similar to electronic boarding for VIA Rail (show a barcode on device).
 
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Has WiFi service on GO Trains ever been something talked about before? It seems weird that it doesn't exist.
Yep.

Metrolinx has analyzed this:
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/travelling/wifi.aspx

See section "Constraints of WiFi on GO Trains" for why they decided not to go ahead.

Regarding the Boston commuter train idea (pay fares over WiFi after you board) -- it's theoretically possible to overlay such a system over Presto -- this might change once Presto gains the capability of instant online refills eventually, and maybe remote fare charge ability (for registered Presto cards). That way, you could theoretically buy your fare right after you board the GOTrain and it would work when you tap on the fare inspectors' presto card reader. On the other hand, WiFi may not be worthwhile in the Boston idea, since readers are already installed and cell data may be even more widespread/cheaper in ten years than now; making WiFi kind of redundant and not cost-effective. Then again, WiFi deployoments become cheaper and cheaper with new technology (For example, new industrial routers such as Cradlepoint can give a coach bus WiFi for only about $200 plus the cost of installation)... Such an implementation may not happen for many years, since it would probably require a theoretical third-generation Presto (after a cycle of 5-year Presto card expiry). Then WiFi connectivity can be used on GOTrains to purchase fares that will show up on your Presto on your next reader tap (including fare inspectors). That is, in theory, if they allow fareless people to board the GOTrain, with the intent to purchase fare via WiFi after aboard. And, just maybe -- killer application -- instantly refill the stored balance on a presto card via tapping it against an NFC-enabled smartphone (e.g. iPhone 6). If vendors such as Apple Pay allow that sort of thing in the future, and if future Presto cards provides compatibility for smartphone refills. Probably won't be for another ten years, but the technology is here...
 
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And, just maybe -- killer application -- instantly refill the stored balance on a presto card via tapping it against an NFC-enabled smartphone (e.g. iPhone 6). If vendors such as Apple Pay allow that sort of thing in the future, and if future Presto cards provides compatibility for smartphone refills. Probably won't be for another ten years, but the technology is here...

Interesting that you would use Apple as an example of an NFC enabled smart phone......since they were the last brand/system to enable the chip.
 
Interesting that you would use Apple as an example of an NFC enabled smart phone......since they were the last brand/system to enable the chip.
One of the last maybe, but one of the more popular/familiar. Their massive rollout of Apple Pay is an example.

I'm s BlackBerry user here with Android and iOS products here (develop apps for all these platforms, carry around an iPad), so not specifically biased to Apple, but it's a very appropriate example due to large installed base.

GOTransit riders tend to be more biased towards iOS than Android (from glances of what kind of devices people are carrying) -- maybe because of the rich downtown core jobs and the tendancy of the upper demographic to buy iOS -- but either way, it's probably the first platform theoretically that anything GO might write a Presto refill app for -- if that ever happens. Of course, 10 years down the road, the mobile demographics may have changed since -- lots do happen in this time period.
 
Yep.

Metrolinx has analyzed this:
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/travelling/wifi.aspx

See section "Constraints of WiFi on GO Trains" for why they decided not to go ahead.

Regarding the Boston commuter train idea (pay fares over WiFi after you board) -- it's theoretically possible to overlay such a system over Presto -- this might change once Presto gains the capability of instant online refills eventually, and maybe remote fare charge ability (for registered Presto cards). That way, you could theoretically buy your fare right after you board the GOTrain and it would work when you tap on the fare inspectors' presto card reader. On the other hand, WiFi may not be worthwhile in the Boston idea, since readers are already installed and cell data may be even more widespread/cheaper in ten years than now; making WiFi kind of redundant and not cost-effective. Then again, WiFi deployoments become cheaper and cheaper with new technology (For example, new industrial routers such as Cradlepoint can give a coach bus WiFi for only about $200 plus the cost of installation)... Such an implementation may not happen for many years, since it would probably require a theoretical third-generation Presto (after a cycle of 5-year Presto card expiry). Then WiFi connectivity can be used on GOTrains to purchase fares that will show up on your Presto on your next reader tap (including fare inspectors). That is, in theory, if they allow fareless people to board the GOTrain, with the intent to purchase fare via WiFi after aboard. And, just maybe -- killer application -- instantly refill the stored balance on a presto card via tapping it against an NFC-enabled smartphone (e.g. iPhone 6). If vendors such as Apple Pay allow that sort of thing in the future, and if future Presto cards provides compatibility for smartphone refills. Probably won't be for another ten years, but the technology is here...
Thanks for that!
I had no idea they even offered WiFi at some stations.
 
Yep.

Metrolinx has analyzed this:
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/travelling/wifi.aspx

See section "Constraints of WiFi on GO Trains" for why they decided not to go ahead.

I find it very strange that they looked only at the cellular solutions. And they are right with this technology...it would be cost prohibitive on the bandwidth side of things.

But there are other technologies they could/should have investigated. The first is licensed spectrum for wireless internet. Having a narrow-beamed tower and a receiver on the engine (and then wirelessly sending it to all cars). There would be some effort to get the antenna's to line up but they do have the technology to rotate the antenna towards the towers using GPS.

The second one would be a GoGo (or similar) hybrid satellite/tower service that they use on airplanes. If I can fly from Toronto to Atlanta with wireless why can't I do it from Burlington to Toronto?

The best solution would be a combination of both. Use licensed wireless spectrum in high traffic areas (lakeshore lines, union, etc) and then GoGo in lower traffic regions (Brampton to Kitchener).

Of course it would not be free (and not ad-supported either). Probably $20-$40 a month with capped downloads (more if you want video) but I expect people would be willing to pay this price for a more effective commute. (and GO would have to pitch in a bit...such as building the towers, etc)
 
The best solution would be a combination of both. Use licensed wireless spectrum in high traffic areas (lakeshore lines, union, etc) and then GoGo in lower traffic regions (Brampton to Kitchener).
GoGo Inflight Internet uses upwards-facing antennas that works mostly above 10,000 feet -- so there's no GoGo Inflight reception on GOTrains.

I'd bet it would be cheaper for Metrolinx to negotiate bandwidth with Rogers/Bell/etc, than for GO to install GoGo Inflight. Also GoGo Inflight has less bandwidth than LTE does, and serves only up to a few hundred people on an airline that's widely spaced apart. GoGo Inflight is also very widely spaced apart, with lots of gaps in between. The reception looks like a "cone" pointing upwards, and overlaps only at 10,000 feet. Zero reception would reach the land. And consider the size of GoTrains relative to airlines. 4000 people on frequent peak GOTrains that are closer spaced together than airplanes, while a GoGo Inflight land antenna might be spaced further apart than the distance between Hamilton and Toronto!. And see tens of thousands are being transported simultaneously during peak. Even Rogers/Bell will be less likely to overload than even if GoGo Inflight has their antennas redirected downwards (theoretically), since GoGo Inflight antenna separation is extremely wide. And with Bell/Rogers today, likely tens of thousands are successfully using mobile data simultaneously during peak commuter traffic. Bandwidth per square metre of ground, is several orders of magnitude higher than GoGo Inflight;

So you see, the law of physics of it all, quite eliminate GoGo Inflight from being a contender for providing Internet to GoTrains.

And it's not good economically either. You would need to invent a new mobile company to replace GoGo Inflight or Rogers or Bell, just to provide Internet service to corridors. And bid on some spectrum at one of those auctions, maybe 600MHz coming up (Sorry, 700Mhz is sold out, already sold to carriers). Can you say, multibillion dollar initiative? You need lots of antennas along the corridor, something Rogers/Bell often has at least in the central parts, and an agreement between Metrolinx and Bell/Rogers could be made to deply more cells for expanded LTE coverage along the corridor -- while expensive and unfavourable idea for some -- this would be far, far cheaper than reinventing a land-based higher-capacity version of GoGo Inflight Internet which would also probably require rental of the same towers that Bell/Rogers uses, and dedicated spectrum (which can be $$$). Forget it, you don't want Metrolinx to set up something tantamount to a new cell company, just to service Internet to GOTrains. Just pay Rogers/Bell for LTE data, and if there's not enough bandwidth, pay Rogers/Bell to set up more antennas along the GOTrain corridor. Even if it costs a hundred million dollars, it would still be cheaper than inventing a new cellphone-equivalent company (GoGo Inflight is sort of one; it's simply mobile spectrum and antennas pointing upwards). The bandwidth of LTE is good enough to serve the GOTrains if optimized specifically: In some sections of Lakeshore GO line you can already download half a gigabyte video file in just ten minutes (>1MBytes/sec) -- actual test that I did myself -- that is far, far faster than satellite -- while in other sections it slows down to a crawl (or briefly loses reception). While on GOTrain, I also routinely install near-100MB iOS apps on my iPad in only 1min-1.5min, confirming the same superfast >1MBytes/sec speed as I whoosh past stations near Oakville. So you see, there's already bandwidth capability in the technology, Rogers/Bell/etc simply needs to point some more antennas along the corridor so that the bandwidth is equally good along the whole corridor. Also, antennas on the top of the train will bring better reception than small cellphone antennas inside the "leaky-Faraday cages" that metal bilevels trains are (people sitting in aisle bulkhead seats on the lower level get the short stick in reception, whle people sitting in window seats on the upper levels, get much better LTE reception -- at least on some sections of Lakeshore with speeds competitive or faster than land-based cable/DSL. Rogers/Bell/etc. can level the playing field with good LTE reception along the whole GO corridors, maybe with a little 'incentive' from Metrolinx, if more bandwidth was necessary for Metrolinx purposes (online realtime fare payment) along the corridors n the future. Also, most American WiFi trains use land-based cellular, sometimes with satellite as backup. VIA Rail does the same too. The GoGo Inflight network of sparsely-separated upwards-cones-of-reception is optimized for airplanes, not for trains, so such a GoGo Inflight style system is never used by any rail system, it would be cost-prohibitive to get the same great LTE bandwidth I get on about 50% of the Lakeshore sections. I admit that LTE does get crappy passing Mimico and Port Credit, and sometimes at Union when the network is overloaded, but my Rogers LTE on iPad feels faster than my 25Mbps Teksavvy home Internet connection during the Lakeshore sections just before and after Oakville. So it would be far more economically feasible to expand LTE along the corridor to match that great LTE reception in the best parts of the corridor. It may still be too expensive for Metrolinx, but far cheaper than a GoGo Inflight style system.

And so you see, the economics, also quite eliminate a GoGo Inflight (or clones that Metrolinx sets up), too.

Bottom line, therefore, GoGo Inflight is DOA for Metrolinx.
 
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New GO Station at Gormley

For those who guessed the announcement of the new station at Gormley, you were right!

GO Transit @GOtransit 2 hours ago
We’re in Gormley today, announcing a new GO Station, with 850 parking spaces, heated shelters,bus loop&Kiss&Ride

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GO Transit @GOtransit 1 hour ago
RICHMOND HILL, KING CITY and AURORA riders: New Gormley station will give u alternative way to get where u need to GO

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