GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[DonValleyRainbow]

Presumably this is the beginning of the end for coaches, and GO will be buying these going forward. The press release hints at that: "These buses represent the future of our bus fleet and set a new standard for the service we provide."

Why not? They have more capacity and are (reasonably) accessible.

Coach accessibility is insane. I remember having to help a driver with the system in the rain at Bramalea one night, it was hell.

 

[drum118]

GO is buying 253 more Alexander-Dennis low floor buses over 5 years, with ADL establishing a chasis assembly plant in the GTA that will create 30 full time jobs.

Interestingly, the press release indicates that these buses will be able to get into Hamilton, Yorkdale, York Mills, and Union, thus enabling them to serve ALL GO routes.

Presumably this is the beginning of the end for coaches, and GO will be buying these going forward. The press release hints at that: "These buses represent the future of our bus fleet and set a new standard for the service we provide."

No surprise to see the end of the current coach buses as the DD will do a better job all around and more for the accessibility community.

I have been try to push the DD in place of artic's for local transit as they have better traction in the winter as well carry more seated riders. Based on what I saw in Europe in 2012 regarding getting riders from top to off the bus was a none issue. It was even less than I thought it would be. Even with a higher price, it off set by the length of time they will remain in service compare to the current 10-12 years for artic's.

 

[smallspy]

No surprise to see the end of the current coach buses as the DD will do a better job all around and more for the accessibility community.

Better for accessibility? Absolutely.

Better all-around? No way in hell. It will be interesting to see how Alexander Dennis deals with the all of the various major and minor issues and concerns that GO has brought up with the previous three orders, if at all. Based on what has happened with this latest order thus far, it looks like they won't.

I have been try to push the DD in place of artic's for local transit as they have better traction in the winter as well carry more seated riders. Based on what I saw in Europe in 2012 regarding getting riders from top to off the bus was a none issue. It was even less than I thought it would be. Even with a higher price, it off set by the length of time they will remain in service compare to the current 10-12 years for artic's.

In long-distance service such as most GO routes, DDs are better, yes. In short-haul, such as on the TTC they are an absolutely terrible idea. Passenger flow in them is atrocious even with units that have two staircases (which also negates a fair amount of their advantages), they can never load and unload as fast as an artic with three doorways, and once you factor in standees - and the fact that you can not have any upstairs - they give you almost nothing in terms of additional passenger-carrying ability over articulated buses. Their only advantage is that there is no turntable to repair.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[drum118]

Better for accessibility? Absolutely.

Better all-around? No way in hell. It will be interesting to see how Alexander Dennis deals with the all of the various major and minor issues and concerns that GO has brought up with the previous three orders, if at all. Based on what has happened with this latest order thus far, it looks like they won't.



In long-distance service such as most GO routes, DDs are better, yes. In short-haul, such as on the TTC they are an absolutely terrible idea. Passenger flow in them is atrocious even with units that have two staircases (which also negates a fair amount of their advantages), they can never load and unload as fast as an artic with three doorways, and once you factor in standees - and the fact that you can not have any upstairs - they give you almost nothing in terms of additional passenger-carrying ability over articulated buses. Their only advantage is that there is no turntable to repair.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

When I went to Europe, I wasn't sure if the DD would work in regular service. Using the buses myself and watching how riders dealt with the stairs as well the single door, there were next to no issues over there. Some buses had 2 doors as well 2 stairs and it vary by system and country.

Over all, they will work in regular service with a longer loading time for high ridership stops. This will off set the issues with artic's.

Even some of the DD had riders standing up on the upper level, considering I have to bend my head just getting to a seat up there as well on GO DD. All buses had camera on the upper level.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Found this in a BNN article about the 45 Bay project (that includes the new bus terminal):

"For its part, Metrolinx was trying to accomplish quite a few things by moving its bus terminal, McCuaig says. Most importantly it wanted an indoor facility for its 55,000 daily customers that connects directly to Union Station so that bus passengers could quickly get onto trains. It also wanted to be as far south as possible, ideally south of the Gardiner Expressway, which would make it easier for buses to avoid having to drive under certain bridges. That would allow the use of more double-decker buses, which reduce operating costs because there is one driver for more passengers."

 

[CDL.TO]

Found this in a BNN article about the 45 Bay project (that includes the new bus terminal):

"For its part, Metrolinx was trying to accomplish quite a few things by moving its bus terminal, McCuaig says. Most importantly it wanted an indoor facility for its 55,000 daily customers that connects directly to Union Station so that bus passengers could quickly get onto trains. It also wanted to be as far south as possible, ideally south of the Gardiner Expressway, which would make it easier for buses to avoid having to drive under certain bridges. That would allow the use of more double-decker buses, which reduce operating costs because there is one driver for more passengers."

I'm guessing that's a misquote and McCuaig actually said they wanted a site south of the rail corridor.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Found this in a BNN article about the 45 Bay project (that includes the new bus terminal):

"For its part, Metrolinx was trying to accomplish quite a few things by moving its bus terminal, McCuaig says. Most importantly it wanted an indoor facility for its 55,000 daily customers that connects directly to Union Station so that bus passengers could quickly get onto trains. It also wanted to be as far south as possible, ideally south of the Gardiner Expressway, which would make it easier for buses to avoid having to drive under certain bridges. That would allow the use of more double-decker buses, which reduce operating costs because there is one driver for more passengers."

Nice to hear.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Here's the link to the article, a good read. I was posting from my phone.

To me, this confirms DavidH's suspicion that Metrolinx is phasing coaches out. To address Dan's issue that DDs don't do well in short haul, isn't it Metrolinx's goal to improve rapid transit operated by local transit agencies, so GO doesn't have to do short haul trips?

 

[innsertnamehere]

new bus:

The buses will apparently be roughly 10 cm shorter than the existing ones, meaning that they will be able to fit into Yorkdale, Hamilton Centre, York Mills, and most importantly, the existing GO bus terminal at Union station. Delivery begins 2016. The order seems to signal the end of GO transits coach buses, this is a pretty big win in terms of accessibility of the vehicles as I know current people with accessibility needs often avoid the MCIs due to the lengthly process of getting on the bus.

 

[CDL.TO]

It's still a coach, it's just a double decker coach.

Anyway, It will be interesting to see just what they feel like inside. I find the top deck on the current shorter "low top" GO buses to be a tight squeeze already.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

The buses will apparently be roughly 10 cm shorter than the existing ones, meaning that they will be able to fit into Yorkdale, Hamilton Centre, York Mills, and most importantly, the existing GO bus terminal at Union station.

Just to confirm, 10 cm shorter than the latest DD, or the original?

It's still a coach, it's just a double decker coach.

Anyway, It will be interesting to see just what they feel like inside. I find the top deck on the current shorter "low top" GO buses to be a tight squeeze already.

Me too. If anything, I think the new design needs to look at taking some of those 10 cm away from the lower floor.

 

[ShonTron]

GO Transit has been slowly phasing out its short-haul routes. The Yonge B and C local and semi-express services were replaced by Viva Blue. DRT Pulse eliminated the local GO Transit Kingston Road bus (replaced with limited-stop and express bus routes on the same corridor). The old Lakeshore Road bus has been gone for over 20 years.

I am surprised that GO Transit still hasn't done much with its anachronistic Route 34/35 Brampton Local bus, the last short-haul milk run route operating entirely in local transit service territory. Brampton Transit's extension of Route 11 to Humber College in the early 2000s, the introduction of BT's 101 (now 115) Airport route, and 501 and 511 Zum services should have decimated those routes. The 36, the Bramalea City Centre-Yorkdale-York Mills express via 427, still makes sense as a GO Transit route, but the 34 local via Airport Road and the 35 via Humber College? They make little sense. Why not beef up the 36 to all day service, extend the 31L Union-Malton-Bramalea GO to the Bramalea City Centre Terminal, and stop sending GO buses on all-stops local on Airport Road and Queen Street when Brampton does the same thing now for a lower fare?

The 31/33 to Georgetown and Guelph is a legacy of the old Highway 7 Gray Coach service, and is the only bus service to Georgetown, Acton and Rockwood. At least it runs express to Union (except later evenings) once it hits Brampton and the 410. It's still a very useful service, unlike the 34/35. Along with the Highway 12 service and the limited Brampton-Orangeville service, this is the last of GO's semi-rural routes where one can flag down a bus anywhere or request a stop anywhere on a highway shoulder. The 31 between Georgetown and Guelph and the 81 to Port Perry and Beaverton are like taking a bus in the 1960s, just with modern coaches with Presto card readers.

The rest of the bus network is pretty much express routes operating with limited stops (park and rides, university campuses, GO train stations, major transit terminals) where double deckers are very useful.

 

[innsertnamehere]

10 cm shorter than the latest DD, apparently. Original DD was 4.3 meters tall, current one was 4.2 meters, the new one is 4.1 meters.

 

[salsa]

It's still a coach, it's just a double decker coach.

Anyway, It will be interesting to see just what they feel like inside. I find the top deck on the current shorter "low top" GO buses to be a tight squeeze already.

Tight squeeze indeed. I'm average height and my head touches the ceiling upstairs. And I didn't find the seats too comfortable. But other than that it's a really nice bus.

 

[DKsan]

ShonTron: From my completely anecdotal view, last week I took the GO bus a few times from Bramalea to York. There's still a hefty amount of passenger traffic from Brampton to York via GO, probably from south Brampton. Also, probably because the 501A is starting to become unbearable at current service levels in terms of space.

Also: can the new and the ordered DDs fit in the Downtown Brampton Terminal, and under the rail bridge in DT Brampton?