GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[DonValleyRainbow]

Richmond Hill Layover as of July 2914, from Metrolinx flickr:
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/metrolinx/14659937448/sizes/m/

Anyone know the status of the stations?

 

[dowlingm]

http://www.gotransit.ca/public/en/improve/projects/gormley_station.aspx
construction "in the fall". Bloomington not yet okayed.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Bloomington will be Okayed when they need some more layover space, from my understanding.

 

[smallspy]

Bloomington will be Okayed when they need some more layover space, from my understanding.

Bloomington is a station, not a layover, and there's tons of room at Bethesda anyways. In any case, I'm not sure why it hasn't been okayed as the cost of an additional station is pretty minimal in the whole scope of this project and trains will have to leave the yard northbound before heading southbound anyways.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[DavidH]

For what it's worth, the "Let GO Know" survey program just asked me a few questions on marketing surrounding the electrification project, and in particular, the naming of the project. That's not particularly important at this point, but there was a bit of detail in the explanatory material that may be interesting, in that it's the clearest current statement on GO's plans I've seen. Obviously this is very much subject to change, but for what it's worth, here's the text.

As part of the initiatives stated in the Big Move (our long-term plan for transforming the way the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area moves), GO Transit is undertaking an ambitious project. While we have moved to 30 minute service on the busy Lakeshore line, many of the GO Transit corridors currently run trains only during peak hours. So over the next 10 years, GO Transit plans to increase the speed and frequency of trains and provide two-way all-day service to every part of the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area.

This rail system will be 10-25% faster than today and expected to run every 15 mins. The trains would be a mix of electric in more urban areas and diesel in out-lying areas. The trains would also have a mix of lengths, 12 car, bi-levels sets during peak periods and shorter trains for off-peak, lower volume trips. Lakeshore and other corridors could run a mix of non-stop express and local train service; others would be all-stop service.

This is a large and complex project and would require:

• Track/signal electrification for the entire system
• New fleet and facilities
• Maintenance facility upgrades
• Local transit and parking expansion
• Additional staff and crew

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Bloomington is a station, not a layover, and there's tons of room at Bethesda anyways. In any case, I'm not sure why it hasn't been okayed as the cost of an additional station is pretty minimal in the whole scope of this project and trains will have to leave the yard northbound before heading southbound anyways.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Furthermore, its right beside an interchange for the 404/DVP. Make for an easy connection for buses, and avoids the traffic jams further south.

Edit: Google says traffic typically starts getting congested south of Stouffville Road beginning at 7AM, becomes a crawl at 8AM, and doesn't clear until 10. Going north, the congestion is below Major Mack 4-7PM.

 

[trainiart]

Bloomington is a station, not a layover, and there's tons of room at Bethesda anyways. In any case, I'm not sure why it hasn't been okayed as the cost of an additional station is pretty minimal in the whole scope of this project and trains will have to leave the yard northbound before heading southbound anyways.

Richmond Hill extension is done by adding a second track. Most likely it's gonna be used the same way as the current service between Doncaster diamond and RH station, that is, the Eastern track exclusive to GO and Western track used for CN freight trains.

Right now the new track is laid up to Bethesda, would need to go up to Bloomington for that new station. So it's not just the station, it's the whole lot of grading and track work to bring it up to Bloomington. Looks like GO is OK with keeping the Bala sub South of Doncaster single-track for now (until AD2W), but CN is not happy with running its mainline with any number of GO trains on a single track, so any RH extensions require a second track.

 

[smallspy]

Richmond Hill extension is done by adding a second track. Most likely it's gonna be used the same way as the current service between Doncaster diamond and RH station, that is, the Eastern track exclusive to GO and Western track used for CN freight trains.

Right now the new track is laid up to Bethesda, would need to go up to Bloomington for that new station. So it's not just the station, it's the whole lot of grading and track work to bring it up to Bloomington. Looks like GO is OK with keeping the Bala sub South of Doncaster single-track for now (until AD2W), but CN is not happy with running its mainline with any number of GO trains on a single track, so any RH extensions require a second track.

I'm well aware of the amount of work that was done. I'm also well aware about the amount of work that would be necessary to extend the double track to Bloomington, which is almost precisely 2 and a half miles and one small bridge.

The cost of the additional track grading and signals necessary to extend the work to Bloomington is almost inconsequential when compared both to the cost of the rest of the work necessary for the extension.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Komiksulo]

For what it's worth, the "Let GO Know" survey program just asked me a few questions on marketing surrounding the electrification project, and in particular, the naming of the project. That's not particularly important at this point, but there was a bit of detail in the explanatory material that may be interesting, in that it's the clearest current statement on GO's plans I've seen. Obviously this is very much subject to change, but for what it's worth, here's the text....

I got that message too. I filled in the questionnaire and suggested a name of GO "REX", because "RER" could be confused with Paris.

 

[robmausser]

GO has the theoretical hourly capacity on Kitchener, perhaps with the new sidings on the Souffville and Barrie lines for those routes as well.

I've heard that for whatever reason, Metrolinx doesnt want to offer ANY kind of bi-directional service with sidings. They will not do it for anything less than double trackage.

For example, there are plenty of empty dead-headed trains on the Milton and Richmond Hill lines currently that could be used as actual reverse-direction, reverse-commute trains in the system. They actually did this on the Milton and Stouffville lines in the 90's.

For whatever reason, with Metrolinx it seems to be all or nothing. 2 tracks and all day service or just peak commute service.

It flies in the face of normal private business practices: you slowly add services in now to build demand.

 

[TOareaFan]

For whatever reason, with Metrolinx it seems to be all or nothing. 2 tracks and all day service or just peak commute service.

It flies in the face of normal private business practices: you slowly add services in now to build demand.

Even two tracks does not seem to be enough now.

 

[EnviroTO]

It is understandable that they wouldn't want to use sidings for service. One delayed train would automatically lead to two delayed trains, and an early train would lead to people thinking they were delayed. Anyone on a transit vehicle during a scheduled stop which is only a few minutes due to early arrival will know the looks on people and how often people are checking their watch... and this is vehicles on time. If a train is sitting an extended period on a siding for a late train there could be mutiny.

 

[robmausser]

Even two tracks does not seem to be enough now.

On the Milton/Kitchener Lines no, it wouldn't.

On the Stouffville, Richmond Hill and Barrie lines? yes, because they aren't used by freight very much (the Stouffville line at all)

Kitchener and Milton lines are used too much by ViaRail/CN/CP traffic to only have 2 tracks for All day 2 way service.

You could do it on the Stouffville, Barrie and Richmond Hill lines with 2 tracks.

Of course the Kitchener/Milton lines have much higher ridership and it would make more sense to have it there first.

Kitchener line will be mostly 3+ track until Mount Pleasant station by 2015.

Milton line just needs one more track, as there are 2 tracks already on the CP mainline.

So really its just one more track for all of the lines, regardless.

 

[TOareaFan]

On the Milton/Kitchener Lines no, it wouldn't.


Kitchener and Milton lines are used too much by ViaRail/CN/CP traffic to only have 2 tracks for All day 2 way service.

As I have said before (and I think there is some who agree) the mix of via/freight on the KW line is not that much different than during the 4 decades or so that GO ran hourly off peak on the Lakeshore W line (ie. more freight on KW but way less via).

Of course the Kitchener/Milton lines have much higher ridership and it would make more sense to have it there first.

Kitchener line will be mostly 3+ track until Mount Pleasant station by 2015.

That was the point of my snarky remark.....even after spending all that money on GTS by next year....GO/ML still say they will not introduce all day service with even hourly off peak or, for that matter, any weekend service at all. So mostly 3 tracks and at least 2 is not now enough for the that old style hourly off peak service.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I've heard that for whatever reason, Metrolinx doesnt want to offer ANY kind of bi-directional service with sidings. They will not do it for anything less than double trackage.

For example, there are plenty of empty dead-headed trains on the Milton and Richmond Hill lines currently that could be used as actual reverse-direction, reverse-commute trains in the system.

It not that they don't want to its that they can't. There's a good reason why the reverse peak trains have to be equipment only. It's because they need to clear as many trains as possible in the shortest amount of time so that the available capacity is at its maximum in the directions that needs it most. Having trains stop going the other way would only serve to reduce peak capacity on the line which is limited due to slow track speeds and the location of sidings and the time it takes to pull into them at restricted speed. Having reverse peak trains make station stops would delay their arrival into the siding. In the northern section of the line where there are three locations to pass this might not be a problem, but on the southern portion with only the Rosedale siding its a major constraint. So the rush hour trains will either end up getting delayed waiting for them or they would have to increase the time in between trains. And obviously neither of those options are acceptable.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by plenty of "deadheaded trains on the Milton line". The only equipment runs up there are to and from the layover yard in Milton, a distance of less than 2 miles. There is no practical application for those trains otherwise.