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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

khristopher said:
The Milton line really needs all day train service. The buses are so full now, and it's only getting busier.
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It SHOULD get it first because it has the most ridership below the lakeshore lines, but it uses CPR mainline tracks and until they build a third track along the entire route there is no way that they are getting all day service.

Although in my opinion this should be a priority over electrification of the Lakeshore line.
 
robmausser said:
It SHOULD get it first because it has the most ridership below the lakeshore lines, but it uses CPR mainline tracks and until they build a third track along the entire route there is no way that they are getting all day service.
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In a perfect world, where you are designing this GO system "from scratch" it should have been the main line...the first developed and the most served....but, as you note, this is the real world and other factors prevailed.

robmausser said:
Although in my opinion this should be a priority over electrification of the Lakeshore line.
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You raise an interesting point....prior to the pre-budget/election bombshell dropped by Minister Murray, all the talk was about how (and in what order) do we get service levels on the other GO lines to All Day, 2 way, 7 day service with hourly (like the old Lakeshore) or half hourly (like the new Lakeshore) service off peak.

Then we are told, bam! going for full electrification with 15 minute service on all lines and, guess what, the first line will be the lakeshores (perhaps UPe gets done first but LSW/E are the first GO lines done)....so, in effect, this leap frogs the lakeshore 15 minute service to the top of the list over service improvements elsewhere.

I know people will say that is only right as they are the highest ridership lines....but at some point that is just a self fulfilling prophecy with service levels and it does not recognize that, at the margins, there is more ridership numbers to be picked up elsewhere. It also puts all of those other lines at risk that if the money runs out prior to full implementation (or a change of government leads to a change of direction) we could end up with 15 minute service on Lakeshore and status quo on the other lines (unlikely that stark a contrast but it is another rich gets richer scenario).
 
1. We won't really know phasing plans for electrification until the board meeting in september when we get an update. They may decide to do "base level" upgrades on the lines first that has been specified in pre-existing EAs (AD2W go which largely just features double tracking), with the actual electrification service following shortly after. Or they may just decide to do the whole thing in a single construction cycle. (probably easier)

2. Given how the Liberals have a mandate until 2018, at least another few lines will more than likely have funding and be under construction by the time we head to the polls again.
 
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TOareaFan said:
You raise an interesting point....prior to the pre-budget/election bombshell dropped by Minister Murray, all the talk was about how (and in what order) do we get service levels on the other GO lines to All Day, 2 way, 7 day service with hourly (like the old Lakeshore) or half hourly (like the new Lakeshore) service off peak.
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I just recently read an article where switching from one hour to 30 minute frequencies was extremely easy and a consultation group showed Metrolinx that it was a no-brainer that required hardly any infrastructure upgrades.

So I would imagine that any new line to get all day service it would be straight to 30 minute frequencies, rolling stock availability permitting.

If ridership was lower then you should technically do 30 minute frequencies but with smaller DMU's or shorter Bi-Levels.
 
TOareaFan said:
In a perfect world, where you are designing this GO system "from scratch" it should have been the main line...the first developed and the most served....but, as you note, this is the real world and other factors prevailed.
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If you built from scratch now, perhaps. But remember when they did the GO service on the Lakeshore line in the mid-1960s, the route was already almost entirely urbanized, while the Milton line was mostly farmland once you crossed into Mississauga (or the township of Toronto as it was then), with villages at Cooksville, Streetstville, and the town at Milton.
 
robmausser said:
I just recently read an article where switching from one hour to 30 minute frequencies was extremely easy and a consultation group showed Metrolinx that it was a no-brainer that required hardly any infrastructure upgrades.

So I would imagine that any new line to get all day service it would be straight to 30 minute frequencies, rolling stock availability permitting.

If ridership was lower then you should technically do 30 minute frequencies but with smaller DMU's or shorter Bi-Levels.
Click to expand...

GO's main advantage was by the time 30 minute service came to Lakeshore, GO purchased or already owned all the trackage except Burlington Jct to Aldershot, a short stretch where the tracks it would use are out of the way of CN's freight operations coming off the Halton Sub.

If all-day, two way service was introduced to the Kitchener Line, it could go as far as Mount Pleasant (even on CN's tracks west of Bramalea) if it were only hourly. The second/third track between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant and the second platform at Brampton that GO paid for (and hasn't really used) could accommodate hourly service while CN would have pretty much the same track capacity to itself for the freights it had before GO's Georgetown North expansion work. But a lot more work would have to go in (a third track through Downtown Brampton, at least) for half-hourly service.

I don't think there's any corridor set up for bi-directional two-way half-hourly service yet apart from Lakeshore. Once Georgetown South/UPX work is done, GO has the theoretical hourly capacity on Kitchener, perhaps with the new sidings on the Souffville and Barrie lines for those routes as well.
 
innsertnamehere said:
1. We won't really know phasing plans for electrification until the board meeting in september when we get an update. They may decide to do "base level" upgrades on the lines first that has been specified in pre-existing EAs (AD2W go which largely just features double tracking), with the actual electrification service following shortly after. Or they may just decide to do the whole thing in a single construction cycle. (probably easier)
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Personally (not based on any inside knowledge, just my opinion), I think Metrolinx may go with piecemeal improvements throughout the network (grade separation here, new siding there, etc) in order to gradually boost service levels. There are several lines that need over/underpasses of some pretty major roads, which would be pretty essential if you want 15 minute service. There may also be others that will need to be widened if any additional tracks are required (looking at you, Milton line).

Those types of projects will likely need to happen before any electrification work can be substantially started.

innsertnamehere said:
2. Given how the Liberals have a mandate until 2018, at least another few lines will more than likely have funding and be under construction by the time we head to the polls again.
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All the more reason to do incremental upgrades and incremental service level increases. Get the underpasses and sidings done to allow AD2W by 2018, with electrification work starting. That way people can see progress happening, with their commutes gradually getting better. If you wait and do everything in one shot (underpasses, new tracks, and electrification), you risk dragging the timeline for the completion of the "whole package" beyond the 2018 election, which would open it up to scrutiny.

If you want a showcase though, you can probably electrify the UPX and Lakeshore lines earlier, as was the plan prior to this year. If Metrolinx can get the UPX and Lakeshore lines electrified by 2018, with all other GO lines running AD2W, I think Metrolinx would have a strong mandate to electrify the remaining lines.
 
ShonTron said:
If all-day, two way service was introduced to the Kitchener Line, it could go as far as Mount Pleasant (even on CN's tracks west of Bramalea) if it were only hourly. The second/third track between Bramalea and Mount Pleasant and the second platform at Brampton that GO paid for (and hasn't really used) could accommodate hourly service while CN would have pretty much the same track capacity to itself for the freights it had before GO's Georgetown North expansion work. But a lot more work would have to go in (a third track through Downtown Brampton, at least) for half-hourly service.
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This is the really frustrating thing....even though the gov't and, seemingly reluctantly, ML have bought into the 10 year plan for 15 minute RER on all lines...as late as last week ML was still communicating that there are no current plans to take full advantage of the $1.3B spent on GTS and introduce anything more than the "up to" 10 more GO trips per day (M-F only) on that corridor.
 
robmausser said:
I just recently read an article where switching from one hour to 30 minute frequencies was extremely easy and a consultation group showed Metrolinx that it was a no-brainer that required hardly any infrastructure upgrades.

So I would imagine that any new line to get all day service it would be straight to 30 minute frequencies, rolling stock availability permitting.
Click to expand...

ShonTron said:
GO's main advantage was by the time 30 minute service came to Lakeshore, GO purchased or already owned all the trackage except Burlington Jct to Aldershot, a short stretch where the tracks it would use are out of the way of CN's freight operations coming off the Halton Sub.
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It was years in the making. Beyond purchasing the corridors, it was adding track, ensuring maintenance capacity, and training crews. It sounds easy to just rattle off a few points, just think of how much effort goes into trying to pull off one aspect of one of those items. It was a massive organizational commitment.
 
  • Due to low ridership and there being Milton Transit options for passengers, starting August 30, GO Bus Route 21 will no longer operate between downtown Milton and Milton GO Station. Passengers travelling Monday to Saturday between downtown Milton to Milton GO Station can now take Milton Transit Bus Route 2 from Main/Martin, Route 6 from Main/Fulton or Routes 2, 5, 6 or 8 from Main/Ontario. Visit Milton Transit or call 905-864-4141 for Milton Transit route and schedule information.
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(emphasis added; also applies to 27) Saw some displeasure on my twitter feed about this. I'll leave it to those familiar with the area to say whether it's justified or not.
 
As I said on Twitter, this is a boneheaded move that seems to only serve GO's operations. If anything, Route 21 should be extended to the Highway 25/401 Carpool Lot, for connections to the Route 25 bus to Waterloo and Route 29 to Guelph.

It's like the old cabbagehead days at GO Transit that justified running one bus every three hours between Brampton and Union Station.

It's as if the cabbageheads expect everyone to drive to their nearest bus stop.
 
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