GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Hourly service is basically is non-existent service, especially for local transit riders. This will make a huge difference for off-peak.

I think it will have huge effect on reverse commuting as well, because reverse trains will now be 30 minutes, right? Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company will no longer need to subsidize MiWay's route 71 Sheridan-Subway (formerly 87/230 Sheridan Express). All those workers can now just take 45A Winston Churcill south to Clarkson.

Or can they? Not everyone in Toronto lives within walking distance to a GO station. Even if the TTC connection was available, would they be willing to pay the full extra fare? This service won't reach it's full potential without GO/TTC integration. And it would also be nice if GO did not force local transit riders and pedestrians to pay for GO parking (and there are a lot of local transit riders and pedestrians in Toronto).

But I'm not sure the 905 will benefit that much either, except people traveling to/from Mississauga, where the stations of the Lakeshore line aren't in such isolated and hostile locations, and so walking, biking and taking local transit to/from the stations is not as difficult. Most of the stations on the Lakeshore line outside of Toronto, Mississauga, and Hamilton are in really inconvenient, inaccessible locations. They are pure park-and-ride commuter rail stations, their location, their design - I don't think this new service will have as much effect as people expect. For example, how many people live or work within walking distance of Oshawa GO Station?

yes, reverse trains as well will be 30 mins

 

[gweed123]

Hourly service is basically is non-existent service, especially for local transit riders. This will make a huge difference for off-peak.

I think it will have huge effect on reverse commuting as well, because reverse trains will now be 30 minutes, right? Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company will no longer need to subsidize MiWay's route 71 Sheridan-Subway (formerly 87/230 Sheridan Express). All those workers can now just take 45A Winston Churcill south to Clarkson.

Or can they? Not everyone in Toronto lives within walking distance to a GO station. Even if the TTC connection was available, would they be willing to pay the full extra fare? This service won't reach it's full potential without GO/TTC integration. And it would also be nice if GO did not force local transit riders and pedestrians to pay for GO parking (and there are a lot of local transit riders and pedestrians in Toronto).

But I'm not sure the 905 will benefit that much either, except people traveling to/from Mississauga, where the stations of the Lakeshore line aren't in such isolated and hostile locations, and so walking, biking and taking local transit to/from the stations is not as difficult. Most of the stations on the Lakeshore line outside of Toronto, Mississauga, and Hamilton are in really inconvenient, inaccessible locations. They are pure park-and-ride commuter rail stations, their location, their design - I don't think this new service will have as much effect as people expect. For example, how many people live or work within walking distance of Oshawa GO Station?

That's very true, on all counts.

I remember going to an interview around the QEW and Third Line, so I figured taking GO out to Bronte and then walking there would be pretty easy (this was before I had a car). Wrong. It was a 45 min walk, most of it with no sidewalks whatsoever. Probably one of the most pedestrian unfriendly environments I'd ever been in.

You're right. If GO is substantially going to boost ridership, they need to shift the employment clusters from the QEW further south to around GO stations. In most cases along Lakeshore West, particularly in Halton, the GO line is only a few hundred metres from the QEW anyway. Cluster it around stations, and I think you'd see a pretty big spike in reverse commuting.

One of the biggest things that could help reverse commuting is for GO to put in a station at Roncesvalles, even before the line is electrified. With so many streetcar routes meeting at that location, it would be an easy transfer for anyone who wants to get from or to any point is western Toronto east of the Humber. Sadly, I don't even think this is on GO's radar.

 

[nfitz]

That's very true, on all counts.

I remember going to an interview around the QEW and Third Line, so I figured taking GO out to Bronte and then walking there would be pretty easy (this was before I had a car). Wrong. It was a 45 min walk, most of it with no sidewalks whatsoever. Probably one of the most pedestrian unfriendly environments I'd ever been in.

It is astounding ... I work near Union and occasionally head out to meetings that way. Generally there's a bus that meets the train at Oakville station, that works well for such things ... but if the train is a few minutes late, then you have to grab a taxi, or be late (or be an hour+ early!). 30-minute service would really help. 45-minute from Bronte GO? That's probably close to 4th Line than 3rd Line ... Bronte station being near 3rd Line (which makes the name rather unfortunate, as many would think it would be at Bronte Rd).

 

[ShonTron]

Hourly service is basically is non-existent service, especially for local transit riders. This will make a huge difference for off-peak.

I think it will have huge effect on reverse commuting as well, because reverse trains will now be 30 minutes, right? Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company will no longer need to subsidize MiWay's route 71 Sheridan-Subway (formerly 87/230 Sheridan Express). All those workers can now just take 45A Winston Churcill south to Clarkson.

Or can they? Not everyone in Toronto lives within walking distance to a GO station. Even if the TTC connection was available, would they be willing to pay the full extra fare? This service won't reach it's full potential without GO/TTC integration. And it would also be nice if GO did not force local transit riders and pedestrians to pay for GO parking (and there are a lot of local transit riders and pedestrians in Toronto).

But I'm not sure the 905 will benefit that much either, except people traveling to/from Mississauga, where the stations of the Lakeshore line aren't in such isolated and hostile locations, and so walking, biking and taking local transit to/from the stations is not as difficult. Most of the stations on the Lakeshore line outside of Toronto, Mississauga, and Hamilton are in really inconvenient, inaccessible locations. They are pure park-and-ride commuter rail stations, their location, their design - I don't think this new service will have as much effect as people expect. For example, how many people live or work within walking distance of Oshawa GO Station?

Interesting. I agree - only Mimico, Long Branch, Port Credit are well integrated into their surroundings on that stretch, though Clarkson isn't bad. Oakville is in the same location that the Great Western Railway established their station in the 1850s, so that station isn't GO's fault and at least the bus connections are optimal there both for the schedules and the bus loop location adjacent to the station building (the one redeeming quality Burlington has too). The Durham stations are all surrounded by parking, the railway and the 401, I am really looking forward to the new Oshawa alignment that will integrate into the community.

Funny how some of the stations on the inferior lines are so well integrated - Brampton, Aurora, Newmarket, Stouffville, Markham, Streetsville. Some of the newest stations are good - Allandale and Mount Joy are pretty walkable as is Mount Pleasant (from the north). Erindale, Cooksville and Richmond Hill aren't terrible either.

Port Credit and Brampton are the two best urban suburban stations (outside Union and Hamilton GO Centre) with the local centres and bus connections simply down the stairs and out a door and the parking in the opposite direction (in Brampton's case the parking there was former train yards and related industrial use).

 

[ssiguy2]

Does anyone know how much it would cost to have all GO stations in Toronto accepting standard TTC fares?

What I mean is if someone's standard Metropass allowed all Torontonians to use the GO system within the city itself, how much revenue would this cost GO?. If the amount is within an amount that could be covered by a gas tax then I think Torontonians would jump at the price of a gas tax if it meant htat all of a sudden they could use the GO system as cheaply as a bus/subway.
It would greatly increase mobility and the citizens would seen the results of the gas tax immediately and not some vague promise of something will improve in the future.

People will pay extra gas taxes if they see the results the same day the tax is introduced as they will see the results immediately and know that the funds are going directly towards service and will make a difference in their commute immediately.
A gas tax or other revenues would be a easy sell if this was part of the package and would not need to be accepted region wide as it would only effect the city itself.

Any idea what the cost of this would be?

 

[TOareaFan]

Does anyone know how much it would cost to have all GO stations in Toronto accepting standard TTC fares?

What I mean is if someone's standard Metropass allowed all Torontonians to use the GO system within the city itself, how much revenue would this cost GO?. If the amount is within an amount that could be covered by a gas tax then I think Torontonians would jump at the price of a gas tax if it meant htat all of a sudden they could use the GO system as cheaply as a bus/subway.
It would greatly increase mobility and the citizens would seen the results of the gas tax immediately and not some vague promise of something will improve in the future.

People will pay extra gas taxes if they see the results the same day the tax is introduced as they will see the results immediately and know that the funds are going directly towards service and will make a difference in their commute immediately.
A gas tax or other revenues would be a easy sell if this was part of the package and would not need to be accepted region wide as it would only effect the city itself.

Any idea what the cost of this would be?

I don't think there is significant enough utility that a significant number of Torontonians would "jump" at the chance to pay the gas tax so they can ride the current GO network for TTC prices....

...........that said, not sure why this would/should be made available to just Torontonians? Why not Mississaugans going from one GO stop in Mississauga to another? Why not Bramptonians? Since Durham and York have regional transit systems would it be available for those entire regions?

 

[drum118]

Hourly service is basically is non-existent service, especially for local transit riders. This will make a huge difference for off-peak.

I think it will have huge effect on reverse commuting as well, because reverse trains will now be 30 minutes, right? Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company will no longer need to subsidize MiWay's route 71 Sheridan-Subway (formerly 87/230 Sheridan Express). All those workers can now just take 45A Winston Churcill south to Clarkson.

Or can they? Not everyone in Toronto lives within walking distance to a GO station. Even if the TTC connection was available, would they be willing to pay the full extra fare? This service won't reach it's full potential without GO/TTC integration. And it would also be nice if GO did not force local transit riders and pedestrians to pay for GO parking (and there are a lot of local transit riders and pedestrians in Toronto).

But I'm not sure the 905 will benefit that much either, except people traveling to/from Mississauga, where the stations of the Lakeshore line aren't in such isolated and hostile locations, and so walking, biking and taking local transit to/from the stations is not as difficult. Most of the stations on the Lakeshore line outside of Toronto, Mississauga, and Hamilton are in really inconvenient, inaccessible locations. They are pure park-and-ride commuter rail stations, their location, their design - I don't think this new service will have as much effect as people expect. For example, how many people live or work within walking distance of Oshawa GO Station?

Why would riders pay 3 fares when 2 will do it because of the 30 minute headway???

You are assuming riders are near the Lakeshore line when it maybe faster to travel the current route.

Royal & Sun Alliance Insurance Company could run a shuttle bus to the Clarkson Station.

Oakville, Bronte, Aldershot and Appleby GO Stations are in no man zone and you need a car/bus to get there if you don't bike.

 

[ShonTron]

Oakville, Bronte, Aldershot and Appleby GO Stations are in no man zone and you need a car/bus to get there if you don't bike.

Heh. Riding a bicycle to or from Oakville Station is fun! Either way you go, you're stuck with dual left turn laned intersections. If you go south, you're stuck on an extremely narrow, busy, Trafalgar Road (Reynolds isn't much better, and good luck getting over to Allan, the first quiet north-south road in one piece), if you go north, you're on a busy interchange with the QEW unless you know about the underpass via Lyons Lane.

I like riding along Lakeshore Road through Oakville - the bi-directional left turn lane allows cars to pass easily and there's some respect for cyclists along that route (and I'm not at all a jersey-and-spandex rider). Oakville should be ashamed though not offering a clear, safe route from the GO station to the lake.

 

[junctionist]

It's crude, suburban planning not to accommodate cycling to GO stations.

 

[LNahid2000]

Heh. Riding a bicycle to or from Oakville Station is fun! Either way you go, you're stuck with dual left turn laned intersections. If you go south, you're stuck on an extremely narrow, busy, Trafalgar Road (Reynolds isn't much better, and good luck getting over to Allan, the first quiet north-south road in one piece), if you go north, you're on a busy interchange with the QEW unless you know about the underpass via Lyons Lane.

Replace QEW with 401 and that was my experience riding to Whitby GO Station today. Worst bike ride ever and I was completely unfamiliar with the area.

 

[BMO]

You guys are forgetting that a lot of these hostile stations have plans to integrate the existing GO stations into the community through future development. I think one of the better plans was the Oakville station one. Pickering also has a decent plan. A lot of the other lines generally have a much better integration of the stations and their surroundings. The Richmond Hill line, for instance, has Oriole station which can be modified to integrate with the Leslie subway station, as well as the future development there. Same thing goes for the Richmond Hill Centre station.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't think there is significant enough utility that a significant number of Torontonians would "jump" at the chance to pay the gas tax so they can ride the current GO network for TTC prices....

...........that said, not sure why this would/should be made available to just Torontonians? Why not Mississaugans going from one GO stop in Mississauga to another? Why not Bramptonians? Since Durham and York have regional transit systems would it be available for those entire regions?

They could certainly do that if they wanted but it would be at their expense not Toronto's. Again, any idea how much it would cost the city to make this possible?

 

[gweed123]

It is astounding ... I work near Union and occasionally head out to meetings that way. Generally there's a bus that meets the train at Oakville station, that works well for such things ... but if the train is a few minutes late, then you have to grab a taxi, or be late (or be an hour+ early!). 30-minute service would really help. 45-minute from Bronte GO? That's probably close to 4th Line than 3rd Line ... Bronte station being near 3rd Line (which makes the name rather unfortunate, as many would think it would be at Bronte Rd).

You're right. It was closer to Fourth Line (just west of it), my bad. But yes, the North Service Road through that area is pretty pedestrian unfriendly.

Re: cycling: I think something that would make a huge difference is just having dedicated bike lanes on major arterials. Burlington has actually been doing pretty well with this. They recently redid the stretch of Fairview from Brant to the GO station, and included bike lanes. Several other roads already have them or have had them recently added.

Personally, I think it's borderline criminal to do a suburban arterial road widening/reconstruction and NOT include bike lanes. Most of the ROWs are plenty wide enough, so the extra 2m that they occupy is hardly a showstopper.

 

[nfitz]

Personally, I think it's borderline criminal to do a suburban arterial road widening/reconstruction and NOT include bike lanes. Most of the ROWs are plenty wide enough, so the extra 2m that they occupy is hardly a showstopper.

I'd say it's criminal not to include sidewalks. Particularly as you have to walk to get to the bus stop!

 

[gweed123]

I'd say it's criminal not to include sidewalks. Particularly as you have to walk to get to the bus stop!

That as well! There are a lot of design elements that are beneficial to non-drivers that are often excluded.