News   Jul 16, 2024
 202     0 
News   Jul 15, 2024
 958     3 
News   Jul 15, 2024
 1K     1 

GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

Further reference:
[The S70/Avanto can be configured to operate on various overhead power supplies. The Avantos ordered for France are dual voltage, capable of operating on 750 V DC when running on tram or light rail tracks and on 25 kV AC when running on main line tracks.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_S70

Lots more on-line, and on competitors. Transport Canada has already allowed precedents to be set with federally regulated heavy rail operation for OC Transpo. This could satisfy the aspirations of SmartTrack with the realities of RER.
 
Lots more on-line, and on competitors. Transport Canada has already allowed precedents to be set with federally regulated heavy rail operation for OC Transpo. This could satisfy the aspirations of SmartTrack with the realities of RER.
So... temporal separation on the Stouffville line and everyone transfers to heavy rail at Scarborough GO? Because that's the "precedent" that O-Train set.
 
I'm new here
Welcome to UrbanToronto!

On the EMUs and ability to pull existing coaches. There's a number of factors to consider, including weight of the bi-level cars, affected acceleration, the couplers, the braking system, the triple-phase Head End supply, and that they'll still be needed for outer regions of the system. From what I can reason, they will have to be loco hauled with the necessary ancillaries supplied by those locos.
It's my understanding Metrolinx is probably going towards a mixed fleet.
This is apparently suggested in PDFs (page 3), procurement and news articles.
- EMUs (for routes with higher station densities, ala SmartTrack section of GO network)
- electric locomotives (pulling existing bilevels and new cabs)
- diesel locomotives (unelectrified lines)

Lots more on-line, and on competitors. Transport Canada has already allowed precedents to be set with federally regulated heavy rail operation for OC Transpo. This could satisfy the aspirations of SmartTrack with the realities of RER.
Another case is Kitchener-Waterloo's ION LRT.
In one section of its route, it is going to run in a corridor used by nighttime freight trains.

Helpfully, Metrolinx now owns 80% of the track that GO runs on, after a buying spree over the last ten years or so. All of the electrified section is all Metrolinx owned, although these sections have freight train running rights that needs to be met.

Transport Canada has indicated this flexibility (page 38) already to allow GO to work towards non-FRA-rated trains (e.g. theoretically, Stadler KISS, or another EMU). Freight time-separation isn't easily doable at this time, but they run rarely enough that PTC might become sufficient as in this document, Transport Canada actually listed it as a possible alternative to freight time-separation (e.g. day-night).

One of the criteria to permit this to happen is Positive Train Control (PTC). This is a technology that automatically brakes trains to prevent them from getting into danger (speed limits, trains ahead, etc). PTC is listed as a RER requirement (Page 12) in several Metrolinx PDFs.

With PTC, temporal freight separation would become no longer an absolute requirement.

As long as track is clear (blocks, in railroading signalling parlance) and the freight train is PTC-equipped, it may be permitted to share the corridor at the same time with non-FRA trainsets within specified allowance criteria agreed upon between Metrolinx and Transport Canada. (e.g. There are many proposals -- such as slightly extra spacing -- including possibly a roughly a train version of the airplane equivalent of a Cessna following an Airbus A380 on its final approach -- assuming the signalling system is equipped to accommodate such block-padding flexibility). Having extra tracks will obviously help the sharing between FRA and non-FRA trains, on a PTC-enabled corridor. Instead of "non-FRA", it could also be new "FRA-lite" rules of reduced structural strength or other concessions, where some existing non-FRA (Euro/China) trains already can meet with few or no modifications.

To meet this, we are seeing Metrolinx is slowly progressing towards Positive Train Control. The Georgetown Corridor megaproject made the UPX corridor signalling PTC-compatible.

I would imagine that continued "occasional" freight running rights could still be allowed during daytime to occur concurrently with non-FRA trains when the electric portion of the GO network is using PTC + grade separation. Not saying that this WILL happen, but it appears that the Transport Canada flexibility appears to exist, given enough money to upgrade the whole electric portion to full PTC.

It is also a money question too (does it fit in the RER budget?). That said, given PTC is listed as a RER requirement, suggests this will phased into the electric portion of the GO network over a decade-ish.

And EMUs probably won't run on all electric routes, so conceivably, PTC could be used only where the EMUs run -- the Georgetown Corridor Project got the Weston sub ready for UPX, with a major signal modernization. A large part of the west leg of SmartTrack is as a result mostly already "PTC-ready".

The USA is in the midst of a major upgrade of freight rail to PTC, to be completed ~2018. This will spillover to Canadian freight, who will probably have an absolute requirement to have PTC enabled before being permitted to have running rights in the electric sections of Metrolinx's network (Especially if it's already a hard FRA requirement then, and Transport Canada copycats that). This is compatible with RER deployment timelines of ~2025 even with delays.

And some of the responses to the MERX RFI tender by Metrolinx appear to be from companies where their only suitable trains, from their links, appear to be European-type models that doesn't seem to have FRA elements.

Cue the music -- non-FRA-structural-rated EMUs rolling into the electrified GO network.

Not confirmed, but all indications (in parallel) show the door is fully wide open.

Also, by 2025-ish (Full RER deployment) it is possible there may no longer be road-rail grade crossings in the electric portion of GO. They are already gone from the Georgetown corridor to the airport, the first passenger-service section that is supposed to be electrified as this section had its electrification EA. Some future grade crossings are not in the RER budget, but many of these grade separations are already in the regular ongoing spendings (annual budgets, municipalities that are required to pay for its cost, etc). This could also theoretically contribute to GO eventually winning the right to non-FRA trainsets, too.
 
Last edited:
MD: Thank you, I'm rushed and not able to supply all the links necessary to buttress the case I proffered, you did so very well. I will add to that later with some other examples, and the San Diego Trolley, who run s70s in trains down to the the Mexican border, and tie-together many cities on the way, also run them on road, albeit as light rail in most cases with their own RoW. If anyone has concern on the limitations of distance on low voltage DC, SDTrolley do very well with theirs. Being an electronic tech myself, I would have thought the transmission losses would have been unacceptable, but technical descriptions are available on-line stating otherwise. The lines are fed at intervals. I'll dig and link later. SDTrolley are also temporally separated, and some of their road flyovers have ground level bypasses for freight so the gradient is close to 0% for the GPs used once overhead current is turned off.

So... temporal separation on the Stouffville line and everyone transfers to heavy rail at Scarborough GO? Because that's the "precedent" that O-Train set.

I had not indicated that at all. Is freight going to interfere with RER projected to use that line once electrified? Then what's the difference for light or heavy EMUs other than crash-specs, which are a strawman argument. Light EMUs (and DMUs) have to meet a higher collision spec for the US Transportation Dep't than heavy rail ones do for the AAR and FRA specs. Many US forums itemize that, and thus the proliferation of 'Tram-Trains' in the US.

I say go ahead with every RER route projected, but take a serious look at using what other systems, years ahead of Toronto, are using for vehicles. Do I counsel taking them out on "freight lines"? No. For distance...*when and if catenary ever reaches there*...then use EMUs. And that includes up the Stouffville Line to immediate centres outside of Toronto. This is what I meant by "attaining the aspirations of SmartTrack with the realities of RER." Beyond that, diesel loco haul is still indicated with the present stock, and in the interim, to get some legs of RER running, I suggest considering leasing or buying DMUs, so that all-day service can be provided on shorter headways without running virtually empty 12 car consists. The latter remain the obvious choice for rush-hour long hauls, and perhaps, dual-mode electric locos once the line is electrified. There are consequences to loco performance, however, when lugging the extra weight of a transformer and associated components, and of course, price.

As to SRT, it would/could become a branch line off of the corridor to allow servicing the stations along it's distance on the present Stouffville line corridor to allow the consists going further north to run express. The 'Scarborough Local' would then be able to run-through on LRT lines where indicated. This is done in various US jurisdictions already, the South Shore being one example, and they are *heavy* EMUs. The South Shore is known as "the last remaining interurban" in the US.
 
Last edited:
Light MUs will not be permitted to operate on the same shared trackage as GO and VIA mainline locomotives, which are to all intents and purposes analogous to freight units.

What TC may or may not permit in the future is a whole other thing, but smallspy pointed out that there is no timeframe for PTC yet so even if TC are willing, the necessary infrastructure just isn't there.
 
Light MUs will not be permitted to operate on the same shared trackage as GO and VIA mainline locomotives, which are to all intents and purposes analogous to freight units.

What TC may or may not permit in the future is a whole other thing, but smallspy pointed out that there is no timeframe for PTC yet so even if TC are willing, the necessary infrastructure just isn't there.

Already established 14 years ago:
[...]
[Technical Feasibility

Objectives

The objective of the LRPP was to demonstrate that a light rail rapid transit service could be successfully implemented on a lightly used freight line using diesel multiple units. More specifically, a two-way fifteen-minute service was to be operated on the CPR line between Bayview and Greenboro with five simple stations. The service was to be fully integrated with other OC Transpo services. The trains were to be operated by OC Transpo operators for whom a special training program was to be developed.

Experience During Pilot Project

Regulatory Issues

To operate a rail service on the railway network, it was necessary for the Region to become a railway. The light rail pilot project was incorporated as a Federal Railway with the trademark ‘Capital Railway’ in early 2000. A simpler application, to become a provincial short line, could have been made but the federal designation will permit the railway to cross the provincial boundary into Quebec in the future.

Transport Canada is the approval authority for Federal Railways and it was necessary to obtain approvals for a non-standard system. The LRPP was the first diesel light rail system in North America and also the first one-person operation passenger railway.

The Department has hired staff with experience in rail operations to implement and supervise the operations of the railway. In addition to this, it was necessary to retain the services of consultants to assist in the development of appropriate rules to govern the operation, the safety management system and the training program for operators.

Transport Canada staff were helpful throughout the process but it was necessary for the LRPP to satisfy all the requirements that would have applied to a much bigger railway. Although this involved a large amount of effort, it positions the City well to expand the system.
[...]
http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/ttc/2002/12-04/ACS2002-TUP-TRN-0012.htm

Report from Transport Canada's website:

[...][The O-Train travels on an 8-km length of existing freight rail track, and connects to the city’s bus rapid transit system (the “Transitway”) on each end of the line. The existing corridor is owned by Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR). The line serves Carleton University, a major employment centre, and a shopping mall in a densely populated neighbourhood. The pilot project is unique by North American standards and involves four “firsts.” It is the first time that light rail passenger trains had been mixed with heavy rail traffic on an existing rail network, and the first time passenger rail services had been operated by a single operator. In addition, this was the first time Bombardier Talent DMU trains had been used anywhere in North America, and the first trains driven by bus operators.
[...]
Partner expertise. There were no examples in North America of a single operator passenger train, so municipal officials relied on the expertise of its partners to design and implement the O-Train. More than a dozen partners lent their experience and knowledge to the project. Some of them include:
  • CPR, as owner of the corridor, engaged Morrison Hershfield (an engineering and management firm) to manage the project. This included design and construction administration, upgrading the lines and maintenance facilities, and building the rail stations.
  • Bombardier provided and maintains the trains and, with AR Concepts, developed and installed the signaling system.
  • Transport Canada worked with the city to develop an operating plan that met federal legislation requirements under the Rail Safety Act. The plan includes operating rules, emergency procedures, employee training programs, and a Safety Management System.
  • [...]
Safety management system (SMS). Federal regulations required that a SMS be developed to ensure the safety of employees, contractors, the public and the environment. Municipal staff worked with Transport Canada, Human Resources Development Canada, CPR, CN, and VIA for their input and to review the SMS.
[...]


http://data.tc.gc.ca/archive/eng/programs/environment-utsp-otrainlightrailproject-973.htm

[...]
[• Pursue implementation of Positive Train Control, as the technology becomes available, in order to maintain a leadership position in rail safety: • Complete feasibility study (2015)][...]
Pg 18 http://www.metrolinx.com/en/aboutus/publications/Metrolinx_Five_Year_Strategy_2015-2020_EN.pdf

[...][Infrastructure Planning Service Concept will require the following types of infrastructure: • New track and signal enhancements, including positive train control][...]
Pg 12 http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0140905_BoardMtg_Regional_Express_Rail_EN.pdf

[...][Metrolinx Rail Safety Agenda 2014-15  Conduct a Positive Train Control (PTC) feasibility study ][...]
Pg 15 http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0140905_BoardMtg_2014-15_Business_Plan_EN.pdf

And of course, from this very forum:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/go-transit-positive-train-control-safety.21483/

RER requires it GM. So how does the use of vehicle predicated upon its use disqualify the vehicle type? TC have already set precedents in the need for PTC, whether EMU light or heavy.
 
It's easy to say it and even to study it, but it's not easy to do it. Look at how long it's taken Amtrak to fully enable ACSES on the NEC (unfortunately too long in the case of Amtrak 188) and how long it has taken operators in the US to obtain the necessary radio spectrum licences such that the PTC deadline had to be rewritten by Congress to add three more years. A passenger track whose service can be paused to let the occasional freight pass to the NRC can't be compared to the USRC in terms of complexity of implementation where you have Metrolinx, VIA and Amtrak vehicles and a complex track layout.
 
It's easy to say it and even to study it, but it's not easy to do it. Look at how long it's taken Amtrak to fully enable ACSES on the NEC (unfortunately too long in the case of Amtrak 188) and how long it has taken operators in the US to obtain the necessary radio spectrum licences such that the PTC deadline had to be rewritten by Congress to add three more years. A passenger track whose service can be paused to let the occasional freight pass to the NRC can't be compared to the USRC in terms of complexity of implementation where you have Metrolinx, VIA and Amtrak vehicles and a complex track layout.
This be true.

It's currently still being mentioned as a RER requirement numerous times in several Metrolinx documents, so it will be interesting to see how PTC delays plays out, in concurrent to RER delays. This requirement could disappear, if they find a satisfactory trainset that meets the requirements. But the requirement hasn't disappeared yet...

There is a probable nearly-10-year window (mid-2020s for the first entry into service). Amtrak will already be PTC equipped even with the delays, as will freight by then (because they transit between US/Canada), so it probably becomes VIA and Metrolinx to focus on, as well as the Metrolinx infrastructure itself.

So far, many things being done in the last while has been done with some kind of PTC migration path in mind, so that helps. The building of the new centres. CTC modernization. The CTC activation of many subs. The resignalling that was done on Weston corridor, and the upcoming USRC resignalling that's supposed to happen soon(ish?). All done before any Transport Canada "edict" occuring for PTC. By then, we'll already be slightly more prepared, and have a bigger time window than they had (hopefully). Once the USRC resignalling occurs, the other pieces of the rail network will be relatively easy in comparison to that resignalling nightmare, so eyes will be peeled on that.

If this is done incrementally, say, Bramalea-Unionville at first, that would be just one line. Assuming all resources are focussed on activating RER with non-FRA trainsets on just one route, within ten years (accounting for delays), it could be doable since there's already been PTC groundwork in a subsection of this corridor, being done even before a Transport Canada requirement beginning to occur. Plus, the +10 years likely means Amtrak/freight trainsets will be equipped by then due to their frequent entry into the U.S. So the minor headstart, plus a focus on just a few corridors, will smooth the transition, if something is announced later this decade for a mid-2020s deadline. Assuming, of course, PTC is still a RER requirement.

I'd imagine there'd be a buffet of strict rules before letting an Euro-style trainset roll onto specific tracks in the USRC. It might be on certain tracks that no non-exceptional daytime freight operations are allowed ever (except temporal -- e.g. overnight when RER is not running). There are many tracks on some of the initial electrfication candidates (Georgetown) so they don't necessarily initially need to install freight flexibility on, say, all four, five or six tracks of a specific corridor (and any accidential freight rolling onto the wrong track would simply mean a RER shutdown for that corridor until the freight corrected).

I'd think that the freight-shared track or tracks would get all the infrastructure goodies to continue to meet minimum possible freight running rights obligations while meeting Transport Canada requirements for non-FRA, with all the necessary warning infrastructure if the freight is ever on the wrong track. It won't be "full physical separation in the same corridor" like the Scarborough RT and GO, but it would electronically be (hopefully) almost as good as that. To solve certain bones of contentions, possibly, some tracks could have nighttime-only running rights while one or two in various locations would have daytime rights.

We already see this with UPX, where it primarily sticks to certain trackage that I've never ever seen daytime freight trains run over (except for very specific conflict points like crossing over to Pearson spur). I'm not even sure a freight train could squeeze between the blocks on the same track, anyway.

There are crossover points of conflicts that need to be solved, and those probably would have strict rules automatically enforced like bigger temporal separation. Some sort of agreement would need to be hammered out, to shoehorn one non-FRA commuter route into the now-Metrolinx-owned network. At least these trainsets probably don't necessarily need full access to all six tracks, if they're being focussed on one route initially.

They don't need to go non-FRA for the whole GO network as EMUs may only arrive on one "route" (e.g. Bramalea-Stoufville RER), so that greatly simplifies what needs to be done by Year 2025. That's a heck a lot of simpler than what the USA is focussing on, and we already have partial PTC infrastructure headstart occuring already ahead of any Transport Canada edict...

Just because non-PTC-equipped trains may be operating to a Quebec coal mine, doesn't automatically mean it's a threat to an Euro train passing Weston, the whole GO network doesn't need to run under the same identical rules. Niether does the Canada-wide rail network. More freight trains run their "running rights" on certain GO routes than others. Freight train running rights, a clause put in the Metrolinx purchase of many freight corridors, are a continually negotiable/modifiable clause that often changes after the original purchase of the corridors. Some routes are infrequent enough that you could just dangle enough money (I'll pay you $XXM if you only run your freight trains at night beginning 5 years from now) and they'll be happy to run a specific leg only at night, if that specific leg (e.g. Unionville) is a big showstopper to a non-FRA EMU purchase. Then you gain temporal separation for those narrower Metrolinx-owned corridors if it's cheaper than trying to expropriate backyards to add third/fourth tracks.

Still... It's a massively complex project, I agree.

I keep seeing "PTC" or "Positive Train Control" mentioned in various Metrolinx documents, including repeatedly as a "requirement". So they have to figure out how to pull that off, somehow. If they're going to pull off those infill stations and also 5-to-10-minute service, and short headways, they need those really high performing EMUs, and several very suitable models tend to be lighter and not FRA-strength.

It may that we end up seeing a compromise, like some form of "FRA lite" rules, not as flexible as Europe/Japan, but lighter trains than current FRA requirements that permits more flexible selection of trainsets. Various tweaks (if necessary), like say, maybe adding those pairs of external shock-absorbing bumper-pads to the front of an existing Euro-style trainset, and a bunch of other basic safety enhancements required for this side of pond (far more minor than requiring a trainset redesign, more minor than trying to meet full FRA structural strength rules) -- before being permitted to roll on a comparatively very small subset of GO's network -- and in 10 years from now.

An Euro trainset that receives simple enhancements to meet any new future "FRA lite" set of rules, might end up being sufficient to satisfy GO's plans for "only one measly subset" of "one measly route" (seemingly already on way to becoming almost half "PTC ready") receiving EMUs, in a future era where all Amtrak/Freight trains are already PTC-equipped, and then all still satisfy Transport Canada. Where there's a way, there's a compromise, methinks...

It's not like a switch flips, and suddenly euro trains is be allowed on the whole GO network by 2025 (or even 2030 with RER deployment delay/political delay by 2018 conservatives/etc) -- just need only a tiny subset -- one that is already partially PTC-ready. Framed that way, negotiating with Transport Canada and the freight companies becomes a more palatable (albiet challenging) matter.

The rest could follow as the older Bombardier BiLevel coaches gradually retire incrementally over a half-century period.

(This discussion needs to be transferred over to the Positive Train Control Thread)
 
Last edited:
It's easy to say it and even to study it, but it's not easy to do it. Look at how long it's taken Amtrak to fully enable ACSES on the NEC (unfortunately too long in the case of Amtrak 188) and how long it has taken operators in the US to obtain the necessary radio spectrum licences such that the PTC deadline had to be rewritten by Congress to add three more years. A passenger track whose service can be paused to let the occasional freight pass to the NRC can't be compared to the USRC in terms of complexity of implementation where you have Metrolinx, VIA and Amtrak vehicles and a complex track layout.

One of the US commuter railroads makes a much better comparator for the purposes of this discussion, not the US national passenger corporation:
[...][Despite challenges, SEPTA aiming to meet PTC deadline
The Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) is working hard to meet the PTC mandate. “The safety enhancements offered by PTC are critically important for the safe operation of SEPTA’s Regional [commuter] Rail system,” says SEPTA GM Joseph M. Casey. “Barring any unforeseen technical challenges or concerns that arise during testing, we will be in full compliance by the deadline. It will be a photo finish, but we will make it.”

When completed, SEPTA will have made a capital investment of $328 million and committed years of intense work to upgrade signals, communication systems, and vehicles to implement a viable and reliable PTC system across its 230-mile Regional Rail network.

The authority shares almost 81 miles of track with four freight lines. Three of SEPTA’s 13 Regional Rail lines operate on Amtrak-owned track. Because a significant portion of SEPTA’s commuter rail system operates in Amtrak territory, the authority is installing Amtrak’s PTC technology — Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System (ACSES).

Adopting ACSES, however, presented SEPTA with an additional challenge on its West Trenton Line, which uses CSX track. CSX is installing IETMS, an entirely different PTC technology that is not compatible with ACSES. To resolve this major impediment, SEPTA and CSX agreed to physically separate their operations — SEPTA completed construction on its own track through CSX territory on the West Trenton Line in August. This additional PTC-related project costs $28 million and is partially funded with $10 million in federal TIGER Grant funding.][...]
http://www.metro-magazine.com/secur...-for-commuter-rail-positive-train-control-fix

Or better yet, a system that is already compliant:
[A sophisticated safety system that could have prevented the deadly Chatsworth train crash in 2008 is now protecting Metrolink passenger trains that travel on all tracks owned by the commuter railroad in Southern California. Rail officials announced Wednesday that so-called positive train control has been installed on 341 miles of right of way exclusively belonging to Metrolink, which began rolling out the new technology last year. The railroad continues to work with Amtrak, Union Pacific, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway Co. and the North County Transit District in San Diego County to install positive train control by year’s end on 171 miles of track that the four carriers share with Metrolink.

Officials say that the commuter railroad is the first line in the nation to have the technology operating during regular service on all tracks that it owns.

“This is a time for us to pause, acknowledge how far we have come and then double our efforts,” said Orange County Supervisor Shawn Nelson, chairman of the Metrolink board of directors. “From the beginning, our agency was committed to have our entire system fully operable with PTC before the December 2015 federal deadline.” Metrolink, which operates on 512 miles of tracks and averages about 42,000 riders per weekday, serves six Southern California counties — Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego and Ventura.][...]
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-positive-train-control-20150624-story.html

That was June of last year.
Better to consider what we can do, and apply political pressure, than conjecture what we can't.

[This additional PTC-related project costs $28 million and is partially funded with $10 million in federal TIGER Grant funding.]

Now there's something that the present federal government could match in Canada, and win friends almost all the way around. I suspect TC already has a report ready for the Min of Transport on how it could be done, and the Ministry itself propose the cost of implementing with a federal proportion. It would certainly move along the tending process and other work making aspects.
 
Last edited:
At Mimico, during a different-than-usual morning commute, I saw something I had never seen before.....
.....Two GO trains moving on the same track, only mere meters behind each other!


These probably must be morning-peak trains deadheading back to Willowbrook Yard.
I didn't know they were allowed to creep so close together.
 
Last edited:
At Mimico, during a different-than-usual morning commute, I saw something I had never seen before.....
.....Two GO trains moving on the same track, only mere meters behind each other!

These probably must be morning-peak trains deadheading back to Willowbrook Yard.
I didn't know they were allowed to creep so close together.

Yep. That's normal. It's a shame that these vehicles spend most of their lives sitting in a yard.
 
The. rule in yard (unsignalled) trackage is - the crew must be able to stop in half the distance that can they see. At walking speed, that's a pretty quick stop.

- Paul
 
Yep. That's normal. It's a shame that these vehicles spend most of their lives sitting in a yard.
Which begs the question of when and if they'll stop ordering the diesel only locos and the heavy carriages. But of course, there's been no decision that I'm aware of for the EMUs to be spec'd, let alone ordered. Comments?
 
Which begs the question of when and if they'll stop ordering the diesel only locos and the heavy carriages. But of course, there's been no decision that I'm aware of for the EMUs to be spec'd, let alone ordered. Comments?
It all depends how far will the GO system GO.

If GO going to start running more trains to NF and move to all day service, you need current power. If you are going to KW or London as well Milton, you need current power as well coaches.

The UPX will be the first line to see EMUs and that will be about 2019/20 at this time. Lakeshore will see both systems by 2020/22 since EMUs can only run on Metrolinx corridor. The other lines will see the same thing since Metrolinx will do the RER section first by 2024.

Until you get CP & CN to allow electrification on their corridors, you need current fleet equipment on them.

That is why GO will have duel fleet to at least 2030 at this time as well spreading the cost of buying the EMUs out on a longer time frame.

With EMU, you can get away with less rolling stock since you can provide more service with it than the current fleet. More service require by current fleet will mean more rolling stock that can't be supply by service going EMU.
 
I really think a dual fleet (existing BiLevels) will remain till 2040s+, not 2030s.

There appear to be routes that don't seem to have any electrifation plans in this generation. Niagara, Richmond Hill, possibly Kitchener (depending on The Brampton Freight Question, and the HSR study).

And possibly even Hamilton doesn't electrify this generation.... but once Burlington electrifies, there will be squeals by the electorate to bring it into Hamilton, so I optimistically would say 2035. But probably not Niagara...though I overheard on a scanner that Pearson ATC just cleared a flying pig to land on runway 33R. So you never know!
 
Last edited:

Back
Top