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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

BurlOak said:
I'm not sure how many people use this line, but can it terminate at the new Downsview Station and then close this section during construction. Also, the bridge at St. Clair could be replaced at the same time.
I am a bit confused at the cost estimate of this project. In one place the Star article says:

elsewhere it says:


How do they know tunnelling will be $500M more expensive if they do not have an estimate?
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There are 2 tunnel cost. The first cost is based on what took place at the West Tunnel that was twin tunnel and haft that cost would be use here.

The 2nd tunnel cost is using a TBM that will have no impact on CP line during construction. It will have to go deeper and will have to start either south to open up close roads or at Bloor and leave close road.

At the same time, both tunnels will have an issues getting back up to grade to use the Davenport bridge to continue the climb to get over St Clair. The 2nd tunnel will have hard time to do 2% grade up to St Clair.

The bridge at St Clair can support 2 tracks as well one platform as that what used to be there in the first place. The station and tracks were on a curve in the past, but the tracks is still is and no way to fix it.

As to real cost, the media accept what Metrolinx feeds them that is wrong in the first place or miss leads them. Then the media doesn't do their homework in the first place and get things wrong by doing so.

If more station are put on line like they should both in Toronto and Outside, ridership will be a lot higher than it is. Stations are coming for St Clair, Eglinton and Sheppard by 2017+. Finch should have one, but real hard to do it.
 
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The precendent in Toronto seems to be to either build at-grade or underground.

Eglinton and Vic Park has about 10 to 20 trains per hour in one direction and 2000 vehicles per hour in the other, and they went with at-grade. I doubt more trains will be using this, so maybe we should just stick with an at-grade intersection. :)
 
BurlOak said:
The precendent in Toronto seems to be to either build at-grade or underground.

Eglinton and Vic Park has about 10 to 20 trains per hour in one direction and 2000 vehicles per hour in the other, and they went with at-grade. I doubt more trains will be using this, so maybe we should just stick with an at-grade intersection. :)
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What are you talking about???

This is a rail to rail crossing with GO Transit getting the short end of the stick.

If you try doing here what took place for the West Toronto Diamond, you cut CP Rail connection 100% to the US and Canada for 3 days. Even though the US line was out of service twice for the West Toronto Diamond, CP was able to move trains around the closure by using the Lambton Wye and the MacTier Sub.

Once RER comes into play, a train will cross CP tracks every 7-8 minutes and the reason for the separation.
 
Would they consider closing the Barrie GO line during construction. It must add a lot to construction to keep the line active during construction. And the passengers can be offloaded to the Spadina line at Downsview - which runs to the same destination and there is probably available capacity too.
 
Go trains hav around 1,500 people on q full 12 car train, but yes. It would be a huge influx of people onto the subway that would more than fill a single subway train
 
innsertnamehere said:
Go trains hav around 1,500 people on q full 12 car train, but yes. It would be a huge influx of people onto the subway that would more than fill a single subway train
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There are cross-over tracks just south of Finch. Trains could turn back here and be virtually empty when the hit new Downsview station.
 
CP are tough negotiaiors, nothing more. They will hold out for the best possible deal but once they have enough money on the table they will find room for agreement. I'm sure they recognise how they could upgrade at GO's expense.

One interesting thing to note - there is longstanding legal precedent that a railway diamond is controlled by the railway that was there first, and costs are borne by the railroad that came last. In the case of the Davenport diamond, the GO line was there first, in fact it's Ontario's oldest rail line. If Metrolinx knew how to be as tough a bunch of SOB's as CP is, they would have a lot of leverage to negotiate the solution.

- Paul
 
^Interesting point. Indeed, the Barrie line (at least south of Aurora) is 162 years old, older than any other rail line in the province. It would quite interesting to see Metrolinx offset the majority of the cost of this upgrade onto CP.
 
crs1026 said:
One interesting thing to note - there is longstanding legal precedent that a railway diamond is controlled by the railway that was there first, and costs are borne by the railroad that came last. In the case of the Davenport diamond, the GO line was there first, in fact it's Ontario's oldest rail line. If Metrolinx knew how to be as tough a bunch of SOB's as CP is, they would have a lot of leverage to negotiate the solution.
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That is interesting. The best tactic here might be using the advantage with the Barrie Line to win some concessions with the Milton Line (additional runs, co-operation in widening the corridor, etc.). If CP doesn't concede and there are no restrictions on Barrie Line service, then just plow ahead with 8 minute crossing frequencies (15 minute frequencies, 2 tracks) without the grade separation and completely block CP freight during the day.

CP has been a long-standing PITA. If the leverage is as strong as indicated, time to fix some of that.
 
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BurlOak said:
Would they consider closing the Barrie GO line during construction. It must add a lot to construction to keep the line active during construction. And the passengers can be offloaded to the Spadina line at Downsview - which runs to the same destination and there is probably available capacity too.
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The idea of capacity on the University line mostly comes from the York subway extension studies that are now 10 to 20 years old. It's gone.
 
BurlOak said:
Would they consider closing the Barrie GO line during construction. It must add a lot to construction to keep the line active during construction. And the passengers can be offloaded to the Spadina line at Downsview - which runs to the same destination and there is probably available capacity too.
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This may be feasible if they stopped short-turning trains at St. Clair West. Also, this is assuming the subway extension gets done on time...
 
IIRC the short turn has already moved up to Eglinton West. When the extension opens they it will move up to either Wilson or Finch West.
 
innsertnamehere said:
IIRC the short turn has already moved up to Eglinton West. When the extension opens they it will move up to either Wilson or Finch West.
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Nice to see. The headways at Lawrence West in the AM are crazy, I never take that way anymore.

Another idea, if there is concern about impact on the subway, was to divert GO trains elsewhere. But looking at it myself, it doesn't look feasible. With the wye tracks that are in place, you could divert via the Halton and Weston subs to Union. Would add some time, and risk UPX scheduling. Probably a no-go.

There are no wye tracks at Halton to get over to the Bala sub, not even space to pop one in. They could wind a 1 km spur along the hydro corridor to make it happen, but would it be worth it?
 
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