General railway discussions

[lenaitch]

What is sad is CN was originally created as a way to save all the short line railways. It seems ever since going privately owned, they became just line every other railway.

CN was created as a Crown agency to save a number of insolvent and financially vulnerable railways after WW1. Some of them were national in scope (Canadian Northern, National Transcontinental) and some more regional (PEIR). It was an extension of public policy at a time when rail was really the only method of land-based long-distance travel.7

Since they became a publicly traded corporation, they are like every other railway. You can't expect a for-profit corporation to be an extension of public policy.

 

[micheal_can]

CN was created as a Crown agency to save a number of insolvent and financially vulnerable railways after WW1. Some of them were national in scope (Canadian Northern, National Transcontinental) and some more regional (PEIR). It was an extension of public policy at a time when rail was really the only method of land-based long-distance travel.7

Since they became a publicly traded corporation, they are like every other railway. You can't expect a for-profit corporation to be an extension of public policy.

I know what they have become. I feel that privatizing it may not have been the best thing for Canada. Sure it may be great for the shareholders,, but for the future, it may be shortsighted.

 

[dowlingm]

CN was created as a Crown agency to save a number of insolvent and financially vulnerable railways after WW1. Some of them were national in scope (Canadian Northern, National Transcontinental) and some more regional (PEIR). It was an extension of public policy at a time when rail was really the only method of land-based long-distance travel.7

Since they became a publicly traded corporation, they are like every other railway. You can't expect a for-profit corporation to be an extension of public policy.

The legislature can impose some boundaries on privatization - the CN Commercialization Act just chose to limit them to location of headquarters and limiting the voting percentage control a single entity could own of the company

CN Commercialization Act

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

The CN privatization was preceded by some line closures of the sort we are discussing here to fatten it for the market. ONR did acquire Calstock to Cochrane at that time (1993). A shame the rest of it to Nakina and another connection to the CN main didn’t stick around and be similarly acquired (gone since 1988).

On the other hand, if CN had retained the Orillia routing to/from the West, perhaps it would not have been so amenable to Metrolinx acquiring the route south of Barrie as a primarily passenger entity.

 

[micheal_can]

The legislature can impose some boundaries on privatization - the CN Commercialization Act just chose to limit them to location of headquarters and limiting the voting percentage control a single entity could own of the company

CN Commercialization Act

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

The CN privatization was preceded by some line closures of the sort we are discussing here to fatten it for the market. ONR did acquire Calstock to Cochrane at that time (1993). A shame the rest of it to Nakina and another connection to the CN main didn’t stick around and be similarly acquired (gone since 1988).

On the other hand, if CN had retained the Orillia routing to/from the West, perhaps it would not have been so amenable to Metrolinx acquiring the route south of Barrie as a primarily passenger entity.

If Metrolinx did exist back then, would they have even wanted it? IIRC GO was being cut back around that time.

 

[smallspy]

On the other hand, if CN had retained the Orillia routing to/from the West, perhaps it would not have been so amenable to Metrolinx acquiring the route south of Barrie as a primarily passenger entity.

Nitpick: It wasn't Metrolinx who acquired that line, it was the municipalities along it. They're the ones that saw the utility long-term.

It was transferred to GO around 2003.

Dan

 

[lenaitch]

The CN privatization was preceded by some line closures of the sort we are discussing here to fatten it for the market. ONR did acquire Calstock to Cochrane at that time (1993). A shame the rest of it to Nakina and another connection to the CN main didn’t stick around and be similarly acquired (gone since 1988).

A rail route needs to have some utility. ONR obvious felt its single connection to the network was sufficient. The stretch between Calstock (which is only maintained to spur standards from Hearst) to Nakina would have been a huge financial drain with absolutely no benefit to the owner. The original National Transcontinental east from Winnipeg struggled to profitable pretty much from the day the last spike was driven.

 

[crs1026]

The original National Transcontinental east from Winnipeg struggled to profitable pretty much from the day the last spike was driven.

The closure of so many once-productive mines and mills in the North, plus the improvements and expansion of the highway network which greatly reduced inbound traffic, doubly impacted this fundamental overbuilding of the rail network.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

The closure of so many once-productive mines and mills in the North, plus the improvements and expansion of the highway network which greatly reduced inbound traffic, doubly impacted this fundamental overbuilding of the rail network.

- Paul

The Grand Trunk Pacific/National Transcontinental was our third coast-to-coast railway and route much further north than the other two, running a very direct line between Prince Rupert and Moncton. Seeing as it went through pretty much nothing in northern Ontario and Quebec, I'm not sure it was ever considered a money maker. I have read that its biggest claim to fame was 'silk trains', carrying live silk worms from the Orient to eastern mills. They apparently operated as high-priority 'hotshot' type service.

A resource-based economy naturally ebbs flows. Forestry is more manageable than minerals but the demand for fibre is market driven. The day a mine opens, its 'shut-down clock' starts running. The NTR was built during the era of unsophisticated prospecting, and managed to miss all of the significant mining camps in Ontario (Red Lake, Porcupine, etc.). They would have no doubt helped back in the day when northern roads were few and far between, but as the road network improved, mining could not have sustained it. A mine needs rail when its output is measured in tons, like iron or base metals, which much of the north isn't really all that strong in. When your output is measured in ounces, like gold or the emerging rare metals or graphite, you don't need rail.

 

[Bordercollie]

Italian startup testing PV sleepers on railway line

Greenrail Group has started deploying special its PV railroad-tie solution along a railway line in Emilia Romagna, Italy. The company designed the system according to the UNI 10349 standard.

www.pv-magazine.com

Innovative idea out of India. I feel like they would get scratched and not generate much power.

Station roofs might be better or canopies.

 

[crs1026]

Italian startup testing PV sleepers on railway line

Greenrail Group has started deploying special its PV railroad-tie solution along a railway line in Emilia Romagna, Italy. The company designed the system according to the UNI 10349 standard.

www.pv-magazine.com

Innovative idea out of India. I feel like they would get scratched and not generate much power.

I imagine they don't figure on those sleepers being covered by snow for much of the year.,

The environmental impacts of the (grimy, oily) runoff from the cleaning would be an interesting study.

Collection of the power in our fairly remote areas would also be a challenge.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

I imagine they don't figure on those sleepers being covered by snow for much of the year.,

The environmental impacts of the (grimy, oily) runoff from the cleaning would be an interesting study.

Collection of the power in our fairly remote areas would also be a challenge.

- Paul

All rail lines used to have telegraph cables along their routes. I'd imagine they could run power lines along the tracks too.That would be the easy thing about this.

 

[crs1026]

All rail lines used to have telegraph cables along their routes. I'd imagine they could run power lines along the tracks too.That would be the easy thing about this.

For how many kilowatts? At what rate of return ?
To restore a power line on a rail row there would have to be an enormous amount of grubbing, since most of those old line pathways are now tree covered..... and an enormous investment in new poles and wires..... and switchgear.....and connections to the grid in new places. And mobilisation of line crews to maintain them.
Do a calculation on the cms2 of solar cell per tie, and compare that to a single installation on equivalent acres of scrub land....and compare the cost to build and operate.....

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

For how many kilowatts? At what rate of return ?
To restore a power line on a rail row there would have to be an enormous amount of grubbing, since most of those old line pathways are now tree covered..... and an enormous investment in new poles and wires..... and switchgear.....and connections to the grid in new places. And mobilisation of line crews to maintain them.
Do a calculation on the cms2 of solar cell per tie, and compare that to a single installation on equivalent acres of scrub land....and compare the cost to build and operate.....

- Paul

I don't think I said it was a good idea, just that getting power from those out is the least of the challenges. Before we invested in this,there are other, better options for places for solar panels than the tracks or even the roads. We could start with every roof of every building.

 

[lenaitch]

The article says that 1 km of sleepers (ties) could generate 44MWh of power per year. That's about 2000 ties. I don't know a whole lot about solar but going by the picture of a single cell set that strikes me as wildly optimistic. I can maybe see a rare application where power is needed at a remote location (provided there is storage), but once you get into significant distances, you get into line losses. Direct current is better than AC but PV are low voltage unless you get into a lot of fancy connective circuitry. They would be further ahead to mount a bunch of solar cells on a pole near a grid point.

I'm actually kinda surprised somebody hasn't proposed some kind of piezoelectric transducer to capture motion energy. I've read about pilots for sidewalks, and there is vertical motion (pumping) every time a train passes over.

 

[micheal_can]

The article says that 1 km of sleepers (ties) could generate 44MWh of power per year. That's about 2000 ties. I don't know a whole lot about solar but going by the picture of a single cell set that strikes me as wildly optimistic. I can maybe see a rare application where power is needed at a remote location (provided there is storage), but once you get into significant distances, you get into line losses. Direct current is better than AC but PV are low voltage unless you get into a lot of fancy connective circuitry. They would be further ahead to mount a bunch of solar cells on a pole near a grid point.

Don't forget, this is proposed for a place near the equator where there is more direct sunlight overhead. For Canada, it may be optimistic, but not as much there.

I'm actually kinda surprised somebody hasn't proposed some kind of piezoelectric transducer to capture motion energy. I've read about pilots for sidewalks, and there is vertical motion (pumping) every time a train passes over.

That energy has to come from somewhere. Where it would come from is from the engines powering the locomotives. Remember, you cannot create energy, only change it.