Ford Wants NFL Team For Toronto

[TOareaFan]

The Bills made money. Why is it all you anti NFL keep bringing up rogers losing money because of bad planning. The NFL can't come here because of the lack of a stadium so what are you afraid of then, and why do you need to have the last word against AG every single time?

The Bills are making huge money from the Toronto market by pre-selling the games in that series to Rogers. I have read that, per game, they make 2 - 3 times what they earn per game at their own stadium.

The fact that Rogers are losing money on it (if they are) just indicates that they overestimated how much they could sell games at...particulary as they are sorta one-off games without developing the concept of "our team" in Toronto.

To be clear, though, if they had paid less than they did to the Bills (but still more than the Bills make on their own hosted games) they would still have the games, they would be able to price the product better to the sporting public and they would sell out and make huge money on it.

The problem with the Bills in Toronto series is not the popularity of the sport....it is just that they overestimated the market size at those price points.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The Bills are making huge money from the Toronto market by pre-selling the games in that series to Rogers. I have read that, per game, they make 2 - 3 times what they earn per game at their own stadium.

The fact that Rogers are losing money on it (if they are) just indicates that they overestimated how much they could sell games at...particulary as they are sorta one-off games without developing the concept of "our team" in Toronto.

To be clear, though, if they had paid less than they did to the Bills (but still more than the Bills make on their own hosted games) they would still have the games, they would be able to price the product better to the sporting public and they would sell out and make huge money on it.

The problem with the Bills in Toronto series is not the popularity of the sport....it is just that they overestimated the market size at those price points.

Thank You. If the prices had been the same as in New England and Philadelphia, the games would look much better.

 

[GenerationW]

The Bills made money. Why is it all you anti NFL keep bringing up rogers losing money because of bad planning. The NFL can't come here because of the lack of a stadium so what are you afraid of then, and why do you need to have the last word against AG every single time?

Because it's true, and because it's worth bringing up over and over and over again. And I deserve the last word because it's part of my UT contract negotiated by Rogers.

When speaking of losing money, I was obviously referring to Rogers. The Bills were guaranteed to make a killing in this deal no matter what.

The Bills are making huge money from the Toronto market by pre-selling the games in that series to Rogers. I have read that, per game, they make 2 - 3 times what they earn per game at their own stadium.

The fact that Rogers are losing money on it (if they are) just indicates that they overestimated how much they could sell games at...particulary as they are sorta one-off games without developing the concept of "our team" in Toronto.

To be clear, though, if they had paid less than they did to the Bills (but still more than the Bills make on their own hosted games) they would still have the games, they would be able to price the product better to the sporting public and they would sell out and make huge money on it.

The problem with the Bills in Toronto series is not the popularity of the sport....it is just that they overestimated the market size at those price points.

"If" is an interesting road to travel down, but let's deal with what's real. In the absence of any other evidence, Rogers and Ralph Wilson negotiated what both considered to be a fair and equitable deal, and the amount Rogers shelled out for these games only became a hot issue after the (lack of) ticket sales became apparent. No one predicted the revenue for these games would be that disappointing (I believe Bob McCown called it a disaster).

Would your "lower cost" scenario really have resulted in a huge profit? Maybe. Easy to say, but difficult to prove, and we'll never know now.

And from the other thread....

Hey if you want to become a world class city, you have to spend money to make money..nothing comes for free. Even the new Toronto Aquarium will be built with some taxpayers money, also everything that Ryerson is building has taxpayers money.etc. etc.

If MLSE could finance the ACC without a dime of public money (and it did), surely the many anonymous billionaires who are lined up to bring an NFL team in Toronto could easily do the same with a new football stadium.

 

[Automation Gallery]

If MLSE could finance the ACC without a dime of public money (and it did), surely the many anonymous billionaires who are lined up to bring an NFL team in Toronto could easily do the same with a new football stadium.

Of course i agree on that, if you read previous posts i have said there a handfull of individuals willing to invest in the NFL without costing the taxpayers a dime..

 

[Automation Gallery]

LOL...This thread should have read that..Toronto wants the NFL, but unfortunately because it has Rob Fords name associated, it is getting slamed by the majority of UT David Miller followers that still cant get over the election results..
Gee you read one post, you read them all regarding mayoral policies, development, transportation, sports, heritage, whatever..same broken record. I guess it sucks to be on the other side.

 

[Asterix]

Of course i agree on that, if you read previous posts i have said there a handfull of individuals willing to invest in the NFL without costing the taxpayers a dime..

Not a 'UT David Miller follower', so I don't see what the point of that label is, but is there a reason you can't provide breakdown the financial estimations to show how the $1.5 billion+ investment from some private, unnamed individual would make good monetary sense for them?

Where's the profit incentive for them to risk that kind of money?

 

[Automation Gallery]

Not a 'UT David Miller follower', so I don't see what the point of that label is, but is there a reason you can't provide breakdown the financial estimations to show how the $1.5 billion+ investment from some private, unnamed individual would make good monetary sense for them?

Where's the profit incentive for them to risk that kind of money?

Let's not beat a dead horse." im not getting into this topic anymore..


NFL Financial and Economic Analysis

Today's National Football League operates as one of the last legalized monopolies in the United States. The NFL essentially operates as a cartel that limits the supply of teams below the optimal level, shares most major revenue streams equally among its members, and subsidizes its operations with substantial public sector funding. League revenue sharing provisions are codified in a document known as the Master Agreement. Among other provisions, the Master Agreement provides for:

•Equal allocation of national television revenues among 32 NFL clubs
•Equal allocation of product licensing revenue (with the exception of a small allocation to players based on jersey sales) among 32 NFL clubs
•A 50/50 home/visitor split of gate revenue for every NFL contest
The intent of this market structure is to guarantee revenue for each and every club, regardless of market size, club winning percentage, organizational structure, localized revenue, etc. The consequence of this structure is a market that is distorted, not connected to club quality (i.e. winning), and potentially not responsive to player needs. This market structure therefore makes it possible (and very likely) for certain clubs to make substantial profits while neglecting the commitment to put the best talent on the field at gametime.

http://www.ashleyagency.net/The_William_Ashley_Agency_-.php

 

[Bogtrotter]

“To be a world class city, at least a North American world class city, we need an NFL team,†Councillor Doug Ford, older brother of Mayor Rob Ford, said.

What's a north american world class city... what does that even mean? This sounds like something Mel Lastman would say

 

[Asterix]

Let's not beat a dead horse." im not getting into this topic anymore..


NFL Financial and Economic Analysis

Today's National Football League operates as one of the last legalized monopolies in the United States. The NFL essentially operates as a cartel that limits the supply of teams below the optimal level, shares most major revenue streams equally among its members, and subsidizes its operations with substantial public sector funding. League revenue sharing provisions are codified in a document known as the Master Agreement. Among other provisions, the Master Agreement provides for:

•Equal allocation of national television revenues among 32 NFL clubs
•Equal allocation of product licensing revenue (with the exception of a small allocation to players based on jersey sales) among 32 NFL clubs
•A 50/50 home/visitor split of gate revenue for every NFL contest
The intent of this market structure is to guarantee revenue for each and every club, regardless of market size, club winning percentage, organizational structure, localized revenue, etc. The consequence of this structure is a market that is distorted, not connected to club quality (i.e. winning), and potentially not responsive to player needs. This market structure therefore makes it possible (and very likely) for certain clubs to make substantial profits while neglecting the commitment to put the best talent on the field at gametime.

http://www.ashleyagency.net/The_William_Ashley_Agency_-.php

Thank you for that. I wasn't aware of their intricate setup.

Couple problems though - the mention of "subsidizes its operations with substantial public sector funding" for one. That's asking the taxpayers to foot a chunk of the bill so some billionaire will keep the team in town.

Secondly, I'd think there are few, if any, NFL stadiums built in the last 20 years that were not constructed without further extensive taxpayer assistance. See the previous cite with respect to Cowboys Stadium.

In principle, I don't have a problem with NFL expansion to Toronto. I just think that the 'respect for taxpayers' mantra should apply and if they shouldn't be funding $12,000 retirement parties, then they shouldn't be funding billion dollar stadiums hosting teams with players making multiple millions a year.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

“To be a world class city, at least a North American world class city, we need an NFL team,” Councillor Doug Ford, older brother of Mayor Rob Ford, said.

What's a north american world class city... what does that even mean? This sounds like something Mel Lastman would say

Truth be told, that was wrong. What he should have said is that he wants to bring more US tourist in, and make Toronto's name big in the US.

 

[nfitz]

What's a north american world class city... what does that even mean? This sounds like something Mel Lastman would say

It does indeed ...

I think it means a North American city that's better than LA, New York City, Mexico City, or Montreal.

Funny that very few of the biggest cities in the continent have NFL teams ...

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Because it's true, and because it's worth bringing up over and over and over again. And I deserve the last word because it's part of my UT contract negotiated by Rogers.

When speaking of losing money, I was obviously referring to Rogers. The Bills were guaranteed to make a killing in this deal no matter what.

It's not worth bringing up over and over again. The deal is not even done yet. Yes the Bills made money. So something was right.

"If" is an interesting road to travel down, but let's deal with what's real. In the absence of any other evidence, Rogers and Ralph Wilson negotiated what both considered to be a fair and equitable deal, and the amount Rogers shelled out for these games only became a hot issue after the (lack of) ticket sales became apparent. No one predicted the revenue for these games would be that disappointing (I believe Bob McCown called it a disaster).

Would your "lower cost" scenario really have resulted in a huge profit? Maybe. Easy to say, but difficult to prove, and we'll never know now.

Well because ticket prices were too high. End of story. Stop trying make it into something that's not.

And from the other thread....
If MLSE could finance the ACC without a dime of public money (and it did), surely the many anonymous billionaires who are lined up to bring an NFL team in Toronto could easily do the same with a new football stadium.

That is what Ford said. And the stadium can be 750 million.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

LOL...This thread should have read that..Toronto wants the NFL, but unfortunately because it has Rob Fords name associated, it is getting slamed by the majority of UT David Miller followers that still cant get over the election results..
Gee you read one post, you read them all regarding mayoral policies, development, transportation, sports, heritage, whatever..same broken record. I guess it sucks to be on the other side.

Hey I'm not even for the NFL but it rediculous how this is being attacked. Even the Leafs would not sell out at those prices.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Bottom Line is we will NOT get a team until we have a stadium. Which makes this debate pointless. The reality Rogers Center is garbage and and a sorry excuse for anything. We need a stadium or plans for one before this goes through any further.

 

[Jeff]

No doubt Rogers is saying it internally after the financial bloodbath of the Bills in Toronto series.

Tailgates and outdoor barbecues in Toronto? Where???

Only 90% attendance paying triple the highest prices in the NFL? Such a failure.