Finch West Line 6 LRT

[T3G]

How unfortunate.

 

[drum118]

Feb 14
The first batch of photos are now up on my site with a second one to come.

It covers the line from Humber College to Albon Station as well as the second set of crossovers.

The crossover is a double set with no block signals. Crosstown has block signals where Mississauga doesn't have so far, and I don't see it happening. Mississauga only has a single crossover where Crosstown has a third track and can't recall is it is a single or double for the other one on the surface at this time.

 

[turbanplanner]

Overall, I don't think this to be the case; I find much to like about 'The Beach' or 'High Park/Roncy' or 'Leslieville' or Parkdale.

Many properties have decently deep lots and either large front or good sized backyards; many have laneway garages, but people either prefer parking out front, or that's where the 'second car' goes.

I accept that the on-street parking is both excessive, and problematic, if you actually need a space as a visitor to the area (or resident). I don't think this requires less density. It requires vastly more carsharing, which can be achieved simply by increasing the number of 'floating' permits; as well as reducing the cost for an on-street, reserved carshare space to the same as any other permit holder (instead of more than 15x the price).

It also requires that parking permits be more expensive. The entry level permit is $21.32 per month; even though, tenants in multi-res buildings routinely pay $70 or more for a space.

While the max permit (for residents with enough spaces for 2 or more vehicles on their property is still only $86.29 a month, when a market priced, reserved space would cost no less than $100, and possibly double that.

If we set the entry level permit at $70, and the permit where you have space on your property to park at $105 per month, there would be far less street parking demand. On major streets, this could be taken up as a boulevard separating a cycling track from a road. On side streets, it could allow for reserved spaces for movers and deliveries, and some additional streetscaping that could bookend those spaces; all the while providing more parking for those who need (and are willing to pay) for it.

We can also create more walkable grocery shopping simply by capping store sizes at 30,000ft2. In the east end of the old City (Danforth to the Lake, The Don to VP) this would force Loblaws and Metro to essentially divide 3 large stores into 2 smaller ones, which would bring grocery much closer to home.

Some modest transit improvements would do wonders to; The Ontario Line will accomplish much, but right now, frequent N-S bus services don't exist from Pape/Carlaw to Coxwell. That's a large gap; the moment the Greenwood and Jones based buses go to 10M service or better from 6am-10:30pm; M-Sat; and 8am-10:30 Sundays, you'd see lower interest in 2-car houses in particular.

*****

The 'streetcar suburb' for the purpose of talking about better suburban typology isn't some huge idea, its just narrower lots, rear laneway garages, and planning for mostly 1-car households, closer shopping, more mature trees, and better transit.

Who is going to give step in here? Car2go didn't find the city profitable and I don't see communuato stepping up

 

[turbanplanner]

Feb 14
The first batch of photos are now up on my site with a second one to come.

It covers the line from Humber College to Albon Station as well as the second set of crossovers.

The crossover is a double set with no block signals. Crosstown has block signals where Mississauga doesn't have so far, and I don't see it happening. Mississauga only has a single crossover where Crosstown has a third track and can't recall is it is a single or double for the other one on the surface at this time.

Thanks for the photos as always! Never understood why humber college was underground but not covered

 

[turbanplanner]

I'm not sure the backyard is a problem, it's the 5 cars in the driveway.

There are places that manage to have mostly low-rise housing, pretty high density, transit-oriented development where active transport is a huge part of the way people get around the community.

View attachment 541596

Houten · Netherlands

Netherlands

www.google.com

By the way, your suggestion about WFH wouldn't help. Those who still need to drive to work would leverage the reduced highway congestion to live even further out of the city (more house for your $). You're back to the same level of congestion with people driving longer distances.

Who is going to move 300km away? like there are limits folks

 

[drum118]

Who is going to move 300km away? like there are limits folks

You will be surprised how many are beyond the 300m range due to where apartment buildings are built along with how the roads are layout as well. A lot of them have no choice.

Draw a line on both sides of any route from 300-500m and look at the road layout as well as what is there now. Try looking out 20-50 years down the road to see what kind of density may happen for various routes. If I use Yonge St as an example for drawing lines 500m on both sides of it going back 25 years and overlay it on today map, you will several of buildings that are now close to 500 me from the line. Take that same map and overlay it on a 20-50 year forecast of the line and you will see a substantial number are on the books now and could be on the books during that time to the point the line can't handle those new developments and why I call for a second Yonge Line for part of the route north of Eglington/St Clair and then goes down Bay St for the south section.

 

[turbanplanner]

You will be surprised how many are beyond the 300m range due to where apartment buildings are built along with how the roads are layout as well. A lot of them have no choice.

Draw a line on both sides of any route from 300-500m and look at the road layout as well as what is there now. Try looking out 20-50 years down the road to see what kind of density may happen for various routes. If I use Yonge St as an example for drawing lines 500m on both sides of it going back 25 years and overlay it on today map, you will several of buildings that are now close to 500 me from the line. Take that same map and overlay it on a 20-50 year forecast of the line and you will see a substantial number are on the books now and could be on the books during that time to the point the line can't handle those new developments and why I call for a second Yonge Line for part of the route north of Eglington/St Clair and then goes down Bay St for the south section.

No my comment was to point out how silly the induced demand thinking was, we're going against things that would actually help (ex mandating wfh) for the fear that people will move to Timmins or somewhere unrealistic if that policy was put in place

 

[drum118]

Feb 14
The last batch is now up on my site.
Nice view from the overpass walkway and that is one long block and the only block with sound barriers

Wood used for the whole bridge

Looks like for a future intersection midway between Kipling and Islington and a very long walking distance from it to eirher stations nor provision for one here.

Concrete has been pour for the south side sidewalk with Islington corner still to be form and pour

 

[afransen]

No my comment was to point out how silly the induced demand thinking was, we're going against things that would actually help (ex mandating wfh) for the fear that people will move to Timmins or somewhere unrealistic if that policy was put in place

You really think people don't move to Barrie, Oshawa, KW, Brantford, St Catharines etc.?

I work with people in the GTA that commute from all of those cities.

 

[Rainforest]

Sure, some people commute from faraway places. That doesn't mean partial WFH is 100% ineffective in reducing congestion. Only some people will move further, the total # of km travelled may be down with fewer trips even if some of them are longer.

Furthermore, fewer people who need to travel every day means fewer cars in/near downtown, and fewer riders on the subway or GO trains in/near downtown, where the demand is highest. Even if the volume far from downtown goes up, that's less of the problem because both the roads and the transit have more spare capacity there.

 

[Undead]

Remote work can help significantly reduce congestion, but we're going to be stuck in traffic because of sh*t like this:

Dream Office REIT units slide after monthly payout slashed by 50%

The REIT’s total occupancy is down from 90 per cent at the start of 2020 and now sits at 82 per cent

www.theglobeandmail.com

"The REIT's units closed at $9.10 on Thursday, the same level they traded for in December, 2008 in the thick of the global financial crisis"

 

[drum118]

You know people also live in Toronto but work in the 905 because that is where there is employment for them along with their company who have moved out of Toronto.

We have people living on the waterfront as that where they want to live regardless of whether they work outside the city or not. Same goes for Finch and other areas.

As long as there is poor transit, traffic will be an issue as it keeps people in their cars. You need the right technology for transit as not one size fits all needs.

Right now, the LRT will work, and it can be upgraded to a subway if needed with the LRT working the line until that subway opens. How long did it take to build this line and how long do you think it will take to build that Subway along with the cost to do it?

 

[sche]

The issues Finch was experiencing with capacity could have been addressed in other, less costly ways.

Please share them.

 

[drum118]

View attachment 542708View attachment 542715

Have fun riding the rear section as you will do it once and never again from my experiences riding them. They give you a rougher ride compared to the 18m ones.

Zurich and Geneva use poles while Hamburg does not. Never saw a triple in Hamburg in 2022 like I did in 2012. Only saw 60' everywhere else in 2022 even Zurich.

Brussels 18m buses had poles with other cities having hybrid or ebuses except Paris that was still using diesels.

Different between Finch LRV and these buses, the LRV's are 48m compared to 27m for the buses that well requiring more drivers and buses to carry the same ridership. Even using 18m buses will require mor of them along with drivers at a higher operation cost than the LRV's.

I don't know if Finch can be upgraded to two car trains, and this will require existing platforms to be length if so. That is the plan for Hurontario LRT along with a few new ones a decade or two after service starts. Crosstown is set up for 3 car trains now.

 

[turini2]

View attachment 542708View attachment 542715

On Finch, that ship has sailed my friend.

I'd push for it on other routes - but the introduction of trolleybuses like that as part of "bus rapid transit" in Toronto is always going to struggle as due to:

• the cost of building a new bus yard big enough to service these loooooong buses
• cost of putting up wires (when politicians will argue that artic battery buses are now available)
• lack of all door boarding
• no trolleybus network at present means you'd be buying vehicles for just 1 corridor (whereas regular buses can be used across the city)

Regardless, future upgrades of busy bus corridors in Toronto needs to follow international best practice - dedicated lanes, signal priority, all door boarding, level boarding with high quality stops, decent branding etc.