AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
I go to the Front & Princess No Frills every week. I hardly ever go to Metro any more, and to Loblaw's even less often.
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LNahid2000
Senior Member
There are a couple of newer walmarts that I would consider decent walmarts. The Gerrard Square location is awesome because it usually isn't very busy and just opened a couple of years ago. Walmarts new urban format with 2 locations in the GTA (Keele/Finch and Markham/Eglinton) are also decent walmarts.
bcx
New Member
The Gerrard Square Walmart isn't busy because it's smaller and doesn't have quite the selection that a normal Walmart has. I'm not complaining though.
Northern Light
Superstar
I think many of you here define 'decent' differently than I do.
For many of you it seems to be 'affordable' or 'clean-ish' or 'not too busy'.
I'm not imposing my view on anyone else, but personally I don't want to shop at places that are poor employers, or are unduly miserly in wages or benefits.
Its not a total do-gooder thing, I see that as advancing my own self-interest in any number of ways. From allowing my own wages to rise, to reducing the number of people
who require public or private charity through my taxes or donations.
I also think decent means products that are healthy, eco-friendly, and well made; preferably providing lift to the local economy.
I'm far too pragmatic not to shift my shopping habits where price premiums make certain lofty goals un-tenable. Or where for instance there is no 'locally' made version
of a product.
But I try not to be completely hypocritical either.
Walmart is never decent, because their entire model of doing business is based on minimizing employee compensation and the price paid for goods, which then puts
the same pressure on suppliers.
Yes, many other stores do the same in varying degrees, but like McDs in fast food they pioneered the concept on a large scale in North America.
I'm not suggesting everyone needs to shop at Whole Foods. Or even Loblaws for that matter.
But I have a hard time calling any place that epitomizes poor treatment of staff; or focuses on price more than quality 'decent'.
I'm also not unalterably opposed to a just a bit of ambiance.
*apologies for snobby sounding, self-righteous rant, LOL
Just wanted to explain my line of thinking.
Skeezix
Senior Member
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To be fair, "decent" is a really broad term. Had you meant it in that one sense, you might have said. But I generally agree with your views.
But before we got off on a tangent about Walmart, the discussion was about No Frills (I believe you said a decent No Frills was a contradiction in terms). While I don't dispute what appear to be your views of Walmart, I'm not sure No Frills is in the same league. I believe some No Frills are even unionized. As franchises, I suspect the track records of stores on the employment front vary, so it strikes me that it might be hard to make general conclusions the same way it would for a chain when all the stores were company-owned. It's retail - No Frills might not be stellar, but I don't know that they stand out as a particular villain. Some stores might be quite decent (in the sense of the word as you are using it), in a relative sense of course. I'm not sure any of the grocery chains are heroes in this regard. As a general rule, retail workers in this country are underpaid and undervalued, but I am not sure if shopping at Whole Foods versus No Frills fixes that. Maybe shopping at the Big Carrot (worker co-op) does.
I don't actually shop at No Frills, finding myself in one about once or twice a year to run in for something specific if I happen to be walking or driving by. But I understand they even have some organic products. From a healthy/eco-friendly perspective, I think someone can shop relatively responsibly at No Frills and another person can buy crap at Loblaws.
I don't think you sounded either snobby or self-righteous. I got my knickers in a knot at some point in the last few years (IIRC on this thread) about factory farm meat, and was probably all sanctimonious about it, and in comparison to me you were quite mild and reasonable sounding!
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When it comes to wages, employee treatment, etc., Loblaws and No Frills are pretty much equivalent. Grocery companies aren't exactly renowned for their wages, benefit packages, etc. As Skeezik said, they're not heroes. Costco pays better than any grocery chain I know of.
Northern Light
Superstar
I would agree that Costco is a more ethical place to buy groceries. They just have all the ambiance of....well.....a warehouse, lol.
I'll concede some No Frills are unionized, however they are a under a different agreement that most of the Loblaws stores, with, to my understanding a lower max. wage. But someone who works there can feel free to correct me.
No question almost every grocer (and most retail) could (and should) pay better.
Some No Frills to provide more organic/natural or quality choices, in terms of purchases. Though generally less so than the 'conventionals'.
To be clear, I shop at No Frills sometimes too.
Its just not my first choice, and when I go through my criteria of what makes for decent..........its a bit of a stretch to me. But that's personal taste.
Towered
Superstar
As other people have been saying, there are indeed some decent No Frills stores. In fact, I'd say they vary dramatically. The ones in Parkdale and the Junction are awful, while the ones in Dufferin Mall and Dundas/Lansdowne are fantastic (luckily I live a 5 minute walk from both).
And yes, I meant that it would be nice to have a decent one close to downtown on the west side of Yonge. For many products, Loblaws, Metro and Sobeys are a rip-off.
GKW
Active Member
Loblaws to spend $1B to open 50 new stores, renovate 150 others
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/loblaw-expansion-1.3531578
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/loblaw-expansion-1.3531578
grey
Senior Member
You can put me in the organic/local/sustainable/ethical camp as well, and the No Frills at Front & Princess is a daily stop for me (over both Metro and Loblaws).
DSC
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Clearly we could have an UrbanToronto Meet-up in the Pasta Aisle!
JasonParis
Moderator
That would be quite the disappointment for many who bought into the area if Metro is indeed pulling out.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
All that graffiti. Hate it.
