"Downtown Core Line" - Possible Alignments?

[Darren B]

Yeah it matters. Its simple geomotry. A wider Ronce means more room to play with curve

 

[kEiThZ]

Yeah it matters. Its simple geomotry. A wider Ronce means more room to play with curve

What I mean was that it does not matter enough....still a sharp curve compared to the other alternatives.

 

[dunkalunk]

If there's going to be a station there, how much does it matter if there is a sharp curve? Its not like trains wouldn't have to slow to a stop for no other reason than a bend in the track.

 

[CDL.TO]

So as a further point, if the DRL was built along an exisiting rail corridor, how would the various bridges be widened or rebuilt to accomodate the DRL? Wouldnt this halt frieght and GO trains during construction?

Construction is able to go on without halting trains, otherwise each time a bridge needed to be rebuilt everything would stop. GO recently worked on the Dupont Street bridge on the Weston and Galt subs without any traffic stoppage. They're building the West Toronto grade separation without stopping traffic. And countless road/rail grade separations have been built around the GTA over the past few decades without any rail traffic stoppage. It's clear that engineers have got this figured out.

As for building extra tracks in existing rail corridors, not all have room. The Kingston Sub (GO Lakeshore East) from Queen to Coxwell is full, so any proposals to run the line there would require expropriation (or tunnel it underneath). And the TTR (Union Station corridor) from Yonge to Spadina is full as well.

 

[CDL.TO]

If there's going to be a station there, how much does it matter if there is a sharp curve? Its not like trains wouldn't have to slow to a stop for no other reason than a bend in the track.

It wears the wheels and tracks down. And subway trains have pretty good acceleration, so tight curves no matter where there are slow things down. Compare King>Union to Queen>King.

 

[Darren B]

It wears the wheels and tracks down. And subway trains have pretty good acceleration, so tight curves no matter where there are slow things down. Compare King>Union to Queen>King.

I think you meant King,Union, St. Andrew not Queen.

Ronce/Queen will be nowhere that tight of a bend. If it can be donw on the tip of Y/U/S then it can be done there.

 

[CDL.TO]

I think you meant King,Union, St. Andrew not Queen.

Ronce/Queen will be nowhere that tight of a bend. If it can be donw on the tip of Y/U/S then it can be done there.

I mean what I said. Compare the operating speed on a straight section of track to similar-length section of curved track.

 

[cacruden]

So are we talking interlining tracks? Because that's what you're going to need to do if you want to go further east or west.

No, there is only a limited distance east or west the line can go before the geography ( and keeping enough people on both sides of the line) will force the line north - which is where it would intersect Bloor. Current discussions already have the line going about as far west as can reasonably be expected. East might go farther - but it would have to already be moving North to cut somewhere between the shoreline and Bloor line. By Pape it would have to be up at least as far as Dundas, although one could argue for it to be taken a little farther east before going North (but not really not that much farther - no farther than Woodbine). The line has to cross Bloor - otherwise it would not be a be a DRL After crossing bloor, it should head mostly North but maybe a little off north to provide a wider U which would eventually create more of a grid system in Toronto - pulling people south on it on Bloor, and people from going across to Yonge North of Bloor.

 

[nfitz]

I disagree with using Union Station's high ridership numbers to justify a connection with the DRL. I travel south on Yonge during the morning rush, often to Union. Based purely on observation, King and Dundas are tied for having the greatest number of people getting off the southbound trains. For third place, I would say that Queen has a slight edge, and Union is fourth. Union easily has the most boardings, but by default, these trips are all in the reverse peak direction.

Yes, you've nailed it. That's exactly why we aren't going to see the relief line go straight to Union - because it won't maximize relief to Bloor-Yonge; presumably the modelling will demonstrate that. The goal here is Bloor-Yonge relief; not Union relief; not to serve the Portlands and Liberty Street, and not to relieve King or Queen.

 

[prosperegal]

Since we need to relieve Yonge more than University, I think the line, should it be built, open without the western portion.

What do you guys think?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

You're forgetting the frequency of vehicles as well as the capacity of the articulated cars, as well as the round the clock exisiting transit on Queen. We've been through before with the Markham comparision. I though we were going to steer clear from the cheap shot analogies. You're just messing with someone's previous comment to come up with a ridiculous comment all together.

Finch East and other routes (like King) being busier than Queen isn't a cheap shot...it's a cold, hard fact. If I forgot frequency why did I ask you what the frequency of the Queen streetcar was? When a streetcar doesn't show up for 20 minutes, yeah, there might be a crowd onboard (if potential riders haven't just walked away). Finch buses, however, show up every 2 minutes, completely full. Finch East night buses are also surprisingly busy, by the way. Yet I'm not saying Finch deserves a subway.

 

[Dan416]

Since we need to relieve Yonge more than University, I think the line, should it be built, open without the western portion.

What do you guys think?

I wouldn't PLAN it that way, but I'd accept it as staged construction if they focused on the east first. But to only build half the DRL I see as short-sighted as building half of Sheppard.

 

[Paleo]

Finch East and other routes (like King) being busier than Queen isn't a cheap shot...it's a cold, hard fact. If I forgot frequency why did I ask you what the frequency of the Queen streetcar was? When a streetcar doesn't show up for 20 minutes, yeah, there might be a crowd onboard (if potential riders haven't just walked away). Finch buses, however, show up every 2 minutes, completely full. Finch East night buses are also surprisingly busy, by the way. Yet I'm not saying Finch deserves a subway.

There was a time when Queen was much more frequent and much busier. It peaked at 60,000 daily according to what I have read on Mr. Munro's blog. I'm sure a lot of people just got fed up with the crappy service and used the BD feeder buses to get up to the subway to head downtown. If a DRL could capture some of those people and get them to use a shortened feeder into a "Queen East" station (or even Gerrard), it could help out a lot at Bloor-Yonge.

 

[nfitz]

I'm sure a lot of people just got fed up with the crappy service and used the BD feeder buses to get up to the subway to head downtown. If a DRL could capture some of those people and get them to use a shortened feeder into a "Queen East" station (or even Gerrard), it could help out a lot at Bloor-Yonge.

Fair enough - in particular the Main, Woodbine, and Coxwell buses are used like this, where people are avoding the 501, and even 506 cars. On the flip side though, I live closer to the subway than the 501, and outside of rush-hour, I use the subway, or the 506 to get downtown. In rush-hour I often walk to Kingston Road because 506/504/501 is too many changes, and Bloor-Yonge is too crowded. So if Bloor-Yonge worked better, (say the new platforms, etc.), I'd actually be more likely to use it.

 

[Darren B]

No, there is only a limited distance east or west the line can go before the geography ( and keeping enough people on both sides of the line) will force the line north - which is where it would intersect Bloor. Current discussions already have the line going about as far west as can reasonably be expected. East might go farther - but it would have to already be moving North to cut somewhere between the shoreline and Bloor line. By Pape it would have to be up at least as far as Dundas, although one could argue for it to be taken a little farther east before going North (but not really not that much farther - no farther than Woodbine). The line has to cross Bloor - otherwise it would not be a be a DRL After crossing bloor, it should head mostly North but maybe a little off north to provide a wider U which would eventually create more of a grid system in Toronto - pulling people south on it on Bloor, and people from going across to Yonge North of Bloor.

The DRL will be built as planned, Pape to Queen and then west on Queen to Ronce and up to Dunas west. If demand warrants its, one day an extension could be made east along Queen and if need be north into Souther S'ough. Its vry do-able