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Debate on the merits of the Scarborough Subway Extension

Voltz said:
That's rediculous

The only ideology that we are paying for is subway ideology, it has set transit back, particularly in Scarborough, by another generation. Many transit projects didn't happen because of subways.
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I'd say it was set back due to LRT.

We had three transit modes (Streetcar, Subway, SkyTrain) and then planners said they don't want too many - so they introduced a fourth (LRT). I haven't thought of it before, but possibly the solution was Streetcar and Skytrain - and keep the exist transit vehicles for which TTC has experience running.
 
It's like Toronto transit users are like loyal Blackberry owners. They can't see apple (lrt) is the future. By the time they realize it every other city will have it and we the past transit leaders will be playing catch up
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So anti LRT now? LRT costs less then subways. Especially for people from areas that complain about fiscal responsibility. You also don't dig up the ground. And it encourages people to drive less and lower greenhouse gases.
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The LRT didnt mesh or integrate well into Torontos current network in the form it was previously proposed. BRT, express bus, regional rail and extending the subway to Central urban hubs would be just as & more effective in getting people out of cars. Also there is no reason at all to make car congestion worse in main arteries going thru suburban area as we transition. Transfer placements and integration matters. LRT as a technology didn't miss the mark but the blanket ideology behind it's implentaiton did.

As we now see on EELRT the transfer has now been removed, and we are finally grade separating key areas. The details matter and when you are taking away 2 lanes of vehicle traffic on already busy arteries this is the minimum.
 
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Do we know what the headways will be on the EC and EELRT? I ask because the entire line from Mount Dennis to UTSC will be 41 stops making it the longest line in Toronto, and this is before you factor in the EWLRT which would add another 16 stops (making it the second longest in North America behind the A Train in New York). I wonder if it will even be possible to operate the entire 41 stop service (and eventual 57 stop service) efficiently and consistently as a single line. I ask because you said the transfer on the EELRT is eliminated which it is but I wonder for how long. I do wonder if the opening of the EWLRT will force Crosstown service to be split at say Yonge, since operating services that long efficiently and consistently is really hard. Latency grows with the length of the line.
 
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JSF-1 said:
Do we know what the headways will be on the EC and EELRT? I ask because the entire line from Mount Dennis to UTSC will be 41 stops making it the longest line in Toronto, and this is before you factor in the EWLRT which would add another 16 stops (making it the second longest in North America behind the A Train in New York). I wonder if it will even be possible to operate the entire 41 stop service (and eventual 57 stop service) efficiently and consistently as a single line. I ask because you said the transfer on the EELRT is eliminated which it is but I wonder for how long. I do wonder if the opening of the EWLRT will force Crosstown service to be split at say Yonge, since operating services that long efficiently and consistently is really hard. Latency grows with the length of the line.
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This line will be an operating mess.
 
^It really can be. I believe New York's A Train which makes 66 stops is notorious for being inconsistent and its entirely grade separate. Now factor in the EC which at 57 stops when all is said and done, isn't entirely grade separate.
 
innsertnamehere said:
TTC operates the Yonge line fairly effectively at 38 stops, and it will eventually be 44.
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Some would disagree with the line efficiency and it's 100% grade separated. Future generations will wonder why Eglinton wasn't grade separated either. I expect costly upgrades in the future to at least grade separated all the intersections on the at grade portions of the line. Waste of money, should have been elevated or at the very least had intersections grade separated from the get go.

This city is notorious at "half assing" important transit projects
 
OneCity said:
The LRT didnt mesh or integrate well into Torontos current network in the form it was previously proposed. BRT, express bus, regional rail and extending the subway to Central urban hubs would be just as & more effective in getting people out of cars. Also there is no reason at all to make car congestion worse in main arteries going thru suburban area as we transition. Transfer placements and integration matters. LRT as a technology didn't miss the mark but the blanket ideology behind it's implentaiton did.

As we now see on EELRT the transfer has now been removed, and we are finally grade separating key areas. The details matter and when you are taking away 2 lanes of vehicle traffic on already busy arteries this is the minimum.
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I thought you said you had nothing against LRT? There are transfers in the north and the west. How does finch or eglinton not mesh in the Toronto's system?
 
JSF-1 said:
Do we know what the headways will be on the EC and EELRT? I ask because the entire line from Mount Dennis to UTSC will be 41 stops making it the longest line in Toronto, and this is before you factor in the EWLRT which would add another 16 stops (making it the second longest in North America behind the A Train in New York). I wonder if it will even be possible to operate the entire 41 stop service (and eventual 57 stop service) efficiently and consistently as a single line. I ask because you said the transfer on the EELRT is eliminated which it is but I wonder for how long. I do wonder if the opening of the EWLRT will force Crosstown service to be split at say Yonge, since operating services that long efficiently and consistently is really hard. Latency grows with the length of the line.
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Cobra said:
This line will be an operating mess.
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I think that it will be one line. Something has to be done for east Scarborough.
 
Is there no turn back trackage at Eglinton? It would be kinda silly to not be able to turn trains back at Yonge & Eglinton. Ideally if you were going to split the line or short turn trains it would be there.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
don mills as well.
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I don't think there is a crossover west of Science Centre.

Edit: I lied
alignment_map_w_storage_track.jpg
 
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