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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

We're asking for our "growth node" ...

Don't get confused by the politics; it's not a growth node.

Getting labelled one for political purposes doesn't mean it'll actually grow (whether a subway is there or not). Growth, in Toronto, follows planning applications and those are very quantifiable and SCCs numbers show it is not a growth node.

A subway can only accelerate a growth situation that already exists. It will not create gold from nothing (we've tried that a couple times; still doesn't work).

Build the subway for today's demand or prepare to be quite disappointed.
 
Don't get confused by the politics; it's not a growth node.

Getting labelled one for political purposes doesn't mean it'll actually grow (whether a subway is there or not). Growth, in Toronto, follows planning applications and those are very quantifiable and SCCs numbers show it is not a growth node.

A subway can only accelerate a growth situation that already exists. It will not create gold from nothing (we've tried that a couple times; still doesn't work).

this is the tricky bit. It IS a designated "Growth node," both under Places to Grow and under city official plans going back to the early 1980s. But even Jen keesmaat said the market still isn't there. They're hoping/betting/pretending the subway will change that, but that's where I'm skeptical. Coffey1 asked, a few pages back, well how come York Region is getting all this transit and no one bitches too much about it. Well, because Markham Centre and even VMC are seeing precisely the kind of development Scarborough isn't. (One could say the same about Mississauga Centre too, more or less.) The former has a BRT and GO on its edge and the latter, of course, is actually largely contingent on a subway. But without getting into a debate about the delusion that transit can just CREATE shake-and-bake communities, come back to what Keesmaat actually said.
"the market isn't yet ready for intensification."

More than policy, the market responds to what people actually want. And for 35 years, they haven't wanted to live/work in Scarborough Centre and, per the city's chief planner, they still don't. Why and how are complicated questions but my gut tells me that even if it helps provide a physical and psychological connection to the city proper, and while I hope it produces the envisioned intensification and ridership, my suspicion is that single subway stop won't be sufficient to alter a long-entrenched dynamic. Keesmaat also said the larger network, of which it's part, is the key. She may be right. Time will tell.

But, as I also said above, this is precisely the kind of discussion council didn't have. The debates here are (generally? often?) considerate of details and elements that the actual decision makers didn't consider in the years they spent debating it back and forth, and that's (I think) what the real problem with all this is.
 
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Does anyone know why Line 2 wasn't extended on the SRT corridor back in the 1980s? The Line 2 extension to Kennedy and SRT were built at the same time. I don't understand why the surface Line 2 extension wasn't completed back then.

Originally the Bloor-Danforth line was supposed to be bookended by ALRT, including a line from Kipling to the airport (the platform still exists!). This was instead of continually extending it until the two ends connected to each other on the other side of Lake Ontario.
 
I'm still of the opinion that Scarborough Centre (the growth node, not the bus terminal) should be moved to Kennedy/Eglinton to be on the Eglinton Line, Line 2 and RER.

While I get the idea and agree SCC is a bit further North on Ellesmere. No one in the East end or North East Scarborough will consider Kennedy an Eglinton a central node.

Both areas will flourish with quality development here once SCC gets its subway and soon after the height restriction will be lifted from Kennedy/Eglinton. Also SCC will have have multiple use with the 401, Scarborough-Durham BRT and seamless connection to downtown.
 
When that surface transit enforces an arbitrary transfer between lines the ultimate destination of most commuters is the Town Centre, and not Kennedy Stn, then yes surface transit becomes problematic. And don't even get me started on the performance contrast of both modes during wintertime.
The ultimate destination for like a handful of commuters is the Town Centre.
 
I guess I should be the one to deviate this thread from subway vs LRT.

What are you guys expectation for Scarborough Centre subway station?

A) More or less in line with the other Bloor-Danforth Stations with a modern touch?
2013114-potd.jpg


B) Modern Stations like the Spadina extension?
urbantoronto-3029-18873.jpg


C)World Class Station?
Most-Impressive-Subway-Stations-In-The-World6__880.jpg
 
The ultimate destination for like a handful of commuters is the Town Centre.

A handfu
I guess I should be the one to deviate this thread from subway vs LRT.

What are you guys expectation for Scarborough Centre subway station?

A) More or less in line with the other Bloor-Danforth Stations with a modern touch?
2013114-potd.jpg


B) Modern Stations like the Spadina extension?
urbantoronto-3029-18873.jpg


C)World Class Station?
Most-Impressive-Subway-Stations-In-The-World6__880.jpg


Whatever is basic, less attractive & cheaper.

I would hope to see a modern look and a current design
 
I guess I should be the one to deviate this thread from subway vs LRT.

What are you guys expectation for Scarborough Centre subway station?

It's hard to answer that without knowing precisely where it will be located, particularly in regards to the new "urban grid" they're trying to create. Given that it's just the one station, I think you want something more landmarky on the outside and modern on the inside. Ironically, the sheer length of the tunnel means there's less reason to make sure it's integrated with the design on the rest of Line 2. Since it's a one-off, might as well do something "Special" for Scarborough, whatever that means.
 
When that surface transit enforces an arbitrary transfer between lines the ultimate destination of most commuters is the Town Centre, and not Kennedy Stn, then yes surface transit becomes problematic. And don't even get me started on the performance contrast of both modes during wintertime.
Yonge, Bloor, Danforth, Spadina all have surface sections. Be clear that your problem is the "arbitrary transfer between lines" along a continuous route.
 
That said, I'm perfectly fine at this point with building SSE instead of the DRL; both looks increasingly unlikely by 2030 even if Liberals get another majority. I've come to accept that politics rules and, well, as someone who lives downtown neither project really impacts me anyway.

Both have not happened for the past 8 to 13 years with the Liberals in power (mostly majority). I would say that "both looks increasingly unlikely by 2030 especially if Liberals get another majority.
 

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