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Hopkins123
Senior Member
What is wrong with surface transit?
Underground is not inherently better, just more expensive.
When that surface transit enforces an arbitrary transfer between lines the ultimate destination of most commuters is the Town Centre, and not Kennedy Stn, then yes surface transit becomes problematic. And don't even get me started on the performance contrast of both modes during wintertime.
sixrings
Senior Member
there will be no money for eglinton east after you dug a hole and threw all your money into it.Id be happy with surface transit on Eglinton Eas to UTSC and partial on the SSE.
coffey1
Active Member
Id expect that eventually the forgotten child would eventually figure out that they have to build their own future without relying on their parents. Either move, live with a car, or raise enough money to build it themselves. This is life.
Yes. Because thats how it works? Disturbing comment. And we are paying. Just like well be paying for transit elsewhere when your Polticians gets there shit together
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Does anyone know why Line 2 wasn't extended on the SRT corridor back in the 1980s? The Line 2 extension to Kennedy and SRT were built at the same time. I don't understand why the surface Line 2 extension wasn't completed back then.
coffey1
Active Member
there will be no money for eglinton east after you dug a hole and threw all your money into it.
Guess we are done building of there is never going to be more money in your world? Also how do you know what the SSE will cost? It corridor hasn't been designed. The threat to Scarborough is baseless and id be shocked to not see it funded injunction with the SSE with Tory in power heading into next election.
sixrings
Senior Member
we pay property tax based on values of the houses. Since scarboroughs house values are less they pay less.Yes. Because thats how it works? Disturbing comment. And we are paying. Just like well be paying for transit elsewhere when your Polticians gets there shit together
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
When that surface transit enforces an arbitrary transfer between lines the ultimate destination of most commuters is the Town Centre, and not Kennedy Stn, then yes surface transit becomes problematic. P
This has nothing to do with underground vs surface. The SRT could be underground and you'd still have the same problem.
sixrings
Senior Member
Because people forever hated scarborough because it was working class and not as white as other parts of the city. The End.Does anyone know why Line 2 wasn't extended on the SRT corridor back in the 1980s? The Line 2 extension to Kennedy and SRT were built at the same time. I don't understand why the surface Line 2 extension wasn't completed back then.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Queen's Park got involved.Does anyone know why Line 2 wasn't extended on the SRT corridor back in the 1980s? The Line 2 extension to Kennedy and SRT were built at the same time. I don't understand why the surface Line 2 extension wasn't completed back then.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
there will be no money for eglinton east after you dug a hole and threw all your money into it.
Ah, the fallacy that the government is somehow broke and cannot afford to build anything. They have the money. In fact the City of Toronto has the capital to fund it themselves if only the tax system were revised such that we get to keep more of what we generate instead of sending it upstream.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
Does anyone know why Line 2 wasn't extended on the SRT corridor back in the 1980s? The Line 2 extension to Kennedy and SRT were built at the same time. I don't understand why the surface Line 2 extension wasn't completed back then.
Biggest mistake of the Bill Davis era, that's what happened.
Now, we got NIMBYs strewn across the alignment path where the subway would've gone to the extent that City Council is afraid to even cut down a few trees at the woodlot at Ellesmere and McCowan for ROW. This is what things have come to. Vaughan meanwhile is getting their subway connection prior to the development of their new downtown core. Why Scarborough Centre (and Mississauga Centre for that matter) are getting left behind when their decades' established cores can obviously support subways makes no sense.
rbt
Senior Member
When that surface transit enforces an arbitrary transfer between lines the ultimate destination of most commuters is the Town Centre, and not Kennedy Stn, then yes surface transit becomes problematic. And don't even get me started on the performance contrast of both modes during wintertime.
Who the heck is commuting from (or to) Scarborough Town Centre? It's got a population equal to 1 TR train (nor fully filled at that) and similar employment levels. So we've got 1 train leaving, and maybe 2 arriving. That's everyone for morning rush. I'm not a fan of building $4B in infrastructure for a mall with a value around $150million; it'll be centuries before we get a return on that.
The bus network people use to get to SCC today is the same one that'll get them there after SSE is built. Buses are pretty flexible and could go plenty of other places instead.
That said, I'm perfectly fine at this point with building SSE instead of the DRL; both looks increasingly unlikely by 2030 even if Liberals get another majority. I've come to accept that politics rules and, well, as someone who lives downtown neither project really impacts me anyway.
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sixrings
Senior Member
they have the money if they spend responsibly which is what transit city was. This idea though that we can build subways everywhere is a fantasy. Some people like our old mayor thought Finch west should be subway as well. According to coffeys logic I would agree. Why should rexdale be left out while the rich parts of southern etobicoke have subways. People are severely either underestimating how much you would need to raise taxes to pay for all these subways to nowhere or over estimating how many people are going to be ecstatic over the idea of raising taxes. Just because us transit nerds are happy with paying more for transit doesn't mean the general public is. If the general public was pro taxes ford would not have won, tory would not have won and Trump would have been defeated long before sex scandals. Instead though people vote with their pocket book which is unfortunate. People generally want a mix of both responsible spending. The problem is that responsible is a subjective word to which some like coffey would point out that this is obviously responsible while others like myself would pull their hair out at the thought.Ah, the fallacy that the government is somehow broke and cannot afford to build anything. They have the money. In fact the City of Toronto has the capital to fund it themselves if only the tax system were revised such that we get to keep more of what we generate instead of sending it upstream.
coffey1
Active Member
they have the money if they spend responsibly which is what transit city was. This idea though that we can build subways everywhere is a fantasy. Some people like our old mayor thought Finch west should be subway as well. According to coffeys logic I would agree. Why should rexdale be left out while the rich parts of southern etobicoke have subways. People are severely either underestimating how much you would need to raise taxes to pay for all these subways to nowhere or over estimating how many people are going to be ecstatic over the idea of raising taxes. Just because us transit nerds are happy with paying more for transit doesn't mean the general public is. If the general public was pro taxes ford would not have won, tory would not have won and Trump would have been defeated long before sex scandals. Instead though people vote with their pocket book which is unfortunate. People generally want a mix of both responsible spending. The problem is that responsible is a subjective word to which some like coffey would point out that this is obviously responsible while others like myself would pull their hair out at the thought.
We're asking for our "growth node" to be connect seamlessly to the City's core network infrastructure connecting downtown. The SSE upgrade is a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme and it's great for City unity and progress. I agree "responsible" is completely subjective. And responsible unbiased reporting in the media is long gone. The City's Left can put on their Conservative hats after Scarborough Center in on the subway network.
Im good with LRT but only when an intelligent plan is in place based on the current network like we seem to have now. Transfer City was what it was a Band-aid solution that failed for good reason. Move on and help with the details and funding plan for the bigger picture. Or continue to be part of the problem holding us back and dividing the City.
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