Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

That's funny, just recently you proudly proclaimed how you neither read nor commented on Torontoist articles seeing that it's one of those dreaded "downtown hipster sites" (which was odd at the time since you both read and commented on an article after announcing that doozy). And here you are again reading and commenting on this supposedly unreadable 'downtown hipster site'. It wasn't linked either so you had to go out of your way.

You're too much, brutha. It's not like I hadn't heard of Torontoist before you came around. I just don't read it all the time. I was being ironic with the "downtown hipster" thing. Sometimes I'll even read Now! I googled "scarborough subway" under news. It wasn't too hard. But I guess what's really admirable is to anonymously spout your dreck here and everywhere else (including Torontoist) and/or complain about an article you don't like without citing any specifics or even linking to it. (*eyeroll*)

[and what article did I comment

And while you continually rag on Toronto's council - while trying to tout the glories and transit-orientedness of Your Region (*eyeroll*) - why is it that you never bring up the Prov for meddling things? I mean really, that's what started the SSE issue (among many other multi-billion dollar election promises). Why is Toronto the baddie for taking the Prov up on the promise of a subway? If the Prov promised to bring SSE up to Markham before the next election, and York Region agreed, I'm almost certain you'd be front and centre applauding it.

I don't excuse the province. They scolded Toronto for changing their minds and then changed their own as soon as it served their own purposes. Never said otherwise. So we agree. Yay!
(I don't know I'd say that's what STARTED the SSE issue since they basically handled Ford's changes depending how they felt, pretty much until the by-election came up but whatever; they share blame.)
You're wrong about the last thing but that's about as worth mentioning as the sun coming up.

Again just the same old rhetoric. Problematic ridership my ass. Itll provide some of the best ridership numbers on the network. No need for this article right now. Anyone who cares already knows the history and this is just to keep the anti suburb subway sheep engaged to fight once more.

Your ass is right. "Problematic" is a quote from Keesmaat, and not about the ridership; about how the ridership was calculated. And it links to the article there. I 'm sure even my friend above will chip in here on the reliability of ridership modelling, right 44? But if you didn't know that's what she said and if you didn't know Scarborough is smaller than North York, I'm not sure you're following this as closely as you say. You also might b e wrong about there being "A purpose," but you're entitled to feel otherwise.

Anyway, it's a free country. Comment here about it and/or comment there, like 44North. If there are h oles, poke them. But "problematic" isn't one.

 

[coffey1]

Your ass is right. "Problematic" is a quote from Keesmaat, and not about the ridership; about how the ridership was calculated. And it links to the article there. I 'm sure even my friend above will chip in here on the reliability of ridership modelling, right 44? But if you didn't know that's what she said and if you didn't know Scarborough is smaller than North York, I'm not sure you're following this as closely as you say. You also might b e wrong about there being "A purpose," but you're entitled to feel otherwise.

Anyway, it's a free country. Comment here about it and/or comment there, like 44North. If there are h oles, poke them. But "problematic" isn't one.

Scarborough is larger than North York. But lets just call them fairly equal in mass. Population wise North York has much more potential due to the developments along their extensive & well integrated transit corridors. This Scarborough subway really isnt the "disaster" its being made out to be by Matlow and the media or even close. Its actually quite reasonable based on what exists in this City first and foremost and what is being built to vacant York region Centers with MINIMAL opposition.

So why have we heard nothing in the media to support it? Why is there no media support for councils current review to optimize the route? Just one sided jabs... attack, attack, attack. Surely this doesn't reflect the overall residents wishes or Tory would not support it. It's a one sided narrative led by Politicians in areas near the City's core which is growing due to previous transit blessing, including subway & they want to take the easiest, cheapest way out for Scarborough.

There is no good reason to not support the SSE at this juncture & also funding of the Eglinton LRT extension, with Sheppard currently under review due to lack of detail in the LRT plan. This City cant afford more polarization and needs to move forward. But if you truly think its worth fighting , keep on the good fight as you say its a free Country.

I dont think its worth it and not just for Scarborough but to move forward in developing an actual funding plan & think its an absolute disgrace that we have such bias media outlets

 

[sixrings]

One good reason is that we can't afford it and the DRL

 

[coffey1]

One good reason is that we can't afford it and the DRL

Clearly this is the real reason the Core Politicians and media have long been attacking Scarborough and the SSE.

Why cant we afford it? Oh yes, Because we didn't tax or plan appropriately. So how is fighting over scraps to cut corners the solution? Can we afford the LRT and DRL? No. We's still be approx 10+ Billion short. None of the DRL is funded. But its great well save a billion or so at Scarborough's expense.

In the overall cost of transit expansion then SLRT to SSE will become beyond negligible (20-30 billion+ in this City alone and more will follow). Yet the benefits of seamlessly, attractively, integrating SCC is very important to Scarborough's future.

Cutting corners because we have had zero Political will to put a viable plan in place at all 3 levels of Gov't is unacceptable and internally this rhetoric just dividing the City further. What is our current plan? We are selling off assets like Hydro and pretending like this is achievable, attacking the integration in the core of the most neglect area of the City

Cmon. If the DRL gets funded this whole Political cowardly attack comes to an end. Time to start attacking the problem with honest discussion and stop creating problem within. Working together with the bigger picture in mind to build this City will get us alot further in the long run. And that includes moving forward the Holy DRL.

We should be fighting for the whole City. But if fighting the SSE is important to help feed the beast then keep it up. See how well it works out. I personally dont think its right nor do I think it helps the DRL or City Politics for unity in moving the City forward.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I agree the neglect of the system and refusal to fund proper expansion is the real problem.

There are lots of reasons North York has greater density including the presence of Yonge and the job Lastman and his council did, for all their flaws. There are reasons Metro designated both centres and one has done better than the other and Scarborough's old politicians are part of that. But that's the past.

I've said here before that my problem is less with the subway per se than the process which, as that article does a pretty good job showing, was far more political than anything else. I happen to think lrt made more sense given the ridership, development and financial realities but there were and are pro subway arguments to be made. Ford did not make them. I don't know if anyone on council did. Personally, I think the one stop compromise is slightly wacky but it's not bad, all things considered. Hopefully Scarborough will rise to that challenge and prove the people who scoff at it wrong. I don't do that. But I am sceptical.

The Torontoist article might be more overtly anti subway than I am but I think it's largely perception. The process has been an embarrassment and very prolonged to boot , even if we do end up with something ok in the end.

 

[coffey1]

I agree the neglect of the system and refusal to fund proper expansion is the real problem.

There are lots of reasons North York has greater density including the presence of Yonge and the job Lastman and his council did, for all their flaws. There are reasons Metro designated both centres and one has done better than the other and Scarborough's old politicians are part of that. But that's the past.

I've said here before that my problem is less with the subway per se than the process which, as that article does a pretty good job showing, was far more political than anything else. I happen to think lrt made more sense given the ridership, development and financial realities but there were and are pro subway arguments to be made. Ford did not make them. I don't know if anyone on council did. Personally, I think the one stop compromise is slightly wacky but it's not bad, all things considered. Hopefully Scarborough will rise to that challenge and prove the people who scoff at it wrong. I don't do that. But I am sceptical.

The Torontoist article might be more overtly anti subway than I am but I think it's largely perception. The process has been an embarrassment and very prolonged to boot , even if we do end up with something ok in the end.

Its always been Political and although some try to believe it wasnt it's a completely naive claim. The difference is the areas previously benefiting we never under this type of attack from such a powerful self serving group.

 

[sixrings]

Clearly this is the real reason the Core Politicians and media have long been attacking Scarborough and the SSE.

Why cant we afford it? Oh yes, Because we didn't tax or plan appropriately. So how is fighting over scraps to cut corners the solution? Can we afford the LRT and DRL? No. We's still be approx 10+ Billion short. None of the DRL is funded. But its great well save a billion or so at Scarborough's expense.

In the overall cost of transit expansion then SLRT to SSE will become beyond negligible (20-30 billion+ in this City alone and more will follow). Yet the benefits of seamlessly, attractively, integrating SCC is very important to Scarborough's future.

Cutting corners because we have had zero Political will to put a viable plan in place at all 3 levels of Gov't is unacceptable and internally this rhetoric just dividing the City further. What is our current plan? We are selling off assets like Hydro and pretending like this is achievable, attacking the integration in the core of the most neglect area of the City

Cmon. If the DRL gets funded this whole Political cowardly attack comes to an end. Time to start attacking the problem with honest discussion and stop creating problem within. Working together with the bigger picture in mind to build this City will get us alot further in the long run. And that includes moving forward the Holy DRL.

We should be fighting for the whole City. But if fighting the SSE is important to help feed the beast then keep it up. See how well it works out. I personally dont think its right nor do I think it helps the DRL or City Politics for unity in moving the City forward.

The DRL helps Scarborough more than this extension does and does almost nothing for the core latte sipping pinko bike riders. The Scarborough extension is part vanity project, part low self esteem project, part increasing house values project.

 

[coffey1]

The DRL helps Scarborough more than this extension does and does almost nothing for the core latte sipping pinko bike riders. The Scarborough extension is part vanity project, part low self esteem project, part increasing house values project.

Oh hear we go. Sure if Scarborough actually had a connected system worth using. Which they dont. The subway development which will spur in the Core. this does not help Scarborough growth at all.

Get the superiority complex outta here. Scarborough residents are staying strong despite the constant Bullying narratives from outside interests which doesn't care about strategic integration or details.

And no one is Scarborough opposing the DRL. Its not an either or. The idea the SLRT over SSE will allow the DRL to be built is nonsense. The entire network will be great and worth every penny of we pay attention to the detail to integrate, build and fun it together.

 

[sixrings]

Scarborough just wants its Ferrari and is begging their richer relatives to help them fund it.

 

[coffey1]

Scarborough just wants its Ferrari and is begging their richer relatives to help them fund it.

Ya that moment when your parents continue to give themselves, your siblings and out of town younger cousins Ferrari's and then tell you take take the Yaris. Even then they plan to buy more Ferrari's for family members but claim to be "broke" and find any excuse that might seem to make sense to others who dont care.

What would you expect to happen?

Like I said this whole attack has been completely unjustified and to keep fighting such a ridiculous battle will only cause further chaos without addressing the real problems. But if you must

 

[Hopkins123]

The DRL helps Scarborough more than this extension does and does almost nothing for the core latte sipping pinko bike riders. The Scarborough extension is part vanity project, part low self esteem project, part increasing house values project.

The vanity project was not extending the Bloor-Danforth subway two lousy stops northeast to Scarborough Town Centre back in the '80s when things were still affordable enough to entertain. It probably would have only cost $200 million. Instead Toronto got screwed over with the orphan technology we have to now get rid of.

Now we'd be talking about other things. 30+ years wasted! It's not low-esteem to want something better than surface transit in the SRT corridor.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Now we'd be talking about other things. 30+ years wasted! It's not low-esteem to want something better than surface transit in the SRT corridor.

What is wrong with surface transit?

Underground is not inherently better, just more expensive.

 

[sixrings]

Id be happy for surface transit on both Eglinton West and Finch West. Two lines which I will use.

 

[sixrings]

Ya that moment when your parents continue to give your themselves, your siblings and out of town younger cousins Ferrari's and then tell you take take the Yaris. They plan to buy more Ferrari's for family members but claim to be "broke" and find any excuse that might seem to make sense to others who dont care.

What would you expect to happen?

Like I said this whole attack has been completely unjustified and to keep fighting such a ridiculous battle will only cause further chaos without addressing the real problems. But if you must

Id expect that eventually the forgotten child would eventually figure out that they have to build their own future without relying on their parents. Either move, live with a car, or raise enough money to build it themselves. This is life.

 

[coffey1]

Id be happy with surface transit on Eglinton Eas to UTSC and partial on the SSE.