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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

ILuvTO said:
The way all of this has played out makes me think Tory has been in cahoots with Metrolinx going back to before the election. Why Tory cares about people in Markham/Unionville/Mississauga is not something I really understand as the east and west portion of smart track have no direct benefit to Toronto voters. It appears that Tory has bought into the amalgamated 416/905 transit vision and is leveraging his mayoral mandate to help move it along. With that said, it is an overall win for Toronto residents as they get more transit bang for their buck, obvious issues aside (like the lack of Lawrence stop).
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That's how everyone in the region should be thinking and not thinking only about what happens in their city. There needs to be more of a regional thinking going on.
 
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I was just thinking what if after the build the subway they convert the SRT to LRT to help fill in the gaps that building a subway directly to STC from Kennedy station. Alos doers anyone other then John Tory actually know exactly how "smart track" will actually work?
 
nfitz said:
Where do we see this in anything Tory or planning has presented? They explicitly talk about the Smart Track station at Lawrence East, and implicity up to Milliken.
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The SmartTrack phasing is a Metrolinx recommendation coming from the Eglinton West/SmartTrack study they're doing, and this Scarborough Transit study is done by the city independently. I expect we will see convergence of these two studies sometime later in 2016.
 
Now that the news has had some time to sink in, it's time to figure out how to make this subway work. This article explores some of the decisions that lie ahead that could affect the cost of the subway. Should it be a twin tunnel or single bore tunnel, above ground or underground, what is the projected ridership, are more stations a possibility, and should all trains go to Scarborough Centre or will some of them short turn at Kennedy.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ad-on-cost-design-of-scarborough-transit.html
 
The idea of not having a station at Lawrence is really odd. They cite the high cost of such station due to the proximity of Highland Creek and the need to go deep to get under. But it would not be the first TTC station built near a creek.

If that creek is such a concern, then the whole rationale of routing the subway under Eglinton - Danforth - McCowan disappears. A direct cut (of course, with some allowance for the curve after Kennedy) would be about 1 km shorter. Alignments along Brimley or Midland would be shorter, too.

Moreover, a Brimley or Midland route might allow for a cheaper Lawrence station, and thus save it from the complete elimination. To my knowledge, there are no local obstacles at Midland & Lawrence.

The hydro corridor crosses Lawrence at Brimley and that can be somewhat of an obstacle. However, they can place the station just south of Lawrence, with the north end of platforms approximately under the intersection and the stairs / elavators leading right to the Lawrence East bus stops. Finch station on Line 1 is similarly built near a hydro corridor, and its northern entrances are located right under the wires.
 
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So here is what the report has to say about the Lawrence East stop:

Lawrence East Station

As noted above and in Figure 8, a Lawrence East Station is included in the original proposed three-stop subway extension work, in the vicinity of Lawrence Avenue East and McCowan Road, however, it is removed from the optimized subway extension. In doing so, the assessment has taken into account the following considerations:
  1. There are significant challenges to constructing a station in the Lawrence/McCowan area. Tunnelling deep enough to pass below the West Highland Creek valley (on the north side of Lawrence) results in a station that is extremely deep and costly. At the same time, the configuration of the Gatineau Hydro Corridor and Bendale Park significantly restrict the possibility of the subway passing over top of the creek;
  2. Transfers for bus passengers on two routes (16 McCowan and 54 Lawrence East) could be accommodated by a Lawrence East SmartTrack station, and rerouting buses to Kennedy Station or Scarborough Centre Station. Operational details will be examined before final recommendations are made;
  3. Removing the proposed Lawrence East subway station improves the subway extension speed and frequency of service to Scarborough Centre. This decreases the travel time between Scarborough Centre and Kennedy Station by approximately 40 seconds to five and a half minutes. Additionally, while the existing service concept calls for every second train to turn back at Kennedy Station, every train would serve Scarborough Centre station in the optimized subway scenario; and
  4. Optimizing transit connectivity to Scarborough Centre through the elimination of this potential in-line station does not preclude its later consideration. Further review of this issue is required as part of the next steps in this work.
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Confirmation of every train heading to STC, as well as travel time between STC and Kennedy being 5:30 minutes.

Here is what it says about the Sheppard East LRT:

Sheppard Avenue East Corridor

Since the Province announced that funding for the Sheppard East LRT would be delayed, there is uncertainty about the future of rapid transit on this corridor. Given that development has been approved and constructed based on the assumption that rapid transit would be built, it is important that transit services be improved between the end of the existing Line 5 (Sheppard Subway) and Scarborough Centre in the short term. Further work is needed to evaluate the most suitable rapid transit solution for this corridor.
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Certainly leaves the possibility in place for the rebirth of the Sheppard Subway Extension. Guess we will have a new "SSE" to worry about soon.

Here is what it says about the Crosstown East:

Crosstown East could be built and operated as an easterly extension of Line 5 (Eglinton Crosstown LRT) rather than a separate service as originally planned. It should be noted that the previously proposed Scarborough LRT replacement of Line 3 (SRT) was originally planned to be the easterly extension of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT while the Scarborough-Malvern LRT was to be a standalone line.

For as long as the future of the Sheppard East LRT is uncertain, Crosstown East could terminate at UTSC. There is an opportunity for the City to collaborate with the University of Toronto to develop their Scarborough Campus Master Plan as a Secondary Plan. This would result in the best integration between development on the campus with stations both for the new LRT and the existing BRT services. Further review is required to determine the extent of work that would be necessary to update the Scarborough-Malvern LRT approved EA (i.e. for Line 5 - Eglinton Crosstown extension), including a revised connection at Kennedy Station.
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Looks like confirmation that they are planning on operating it as an easterly extension of the Crosstown, so long as there is no complications upon further studying. Interestingly, the SLRT was planned as an extension of the Crosstown too, which is a surprise to me! I thought it was planned as a standalone line.

Confirmation that no SELRT, no Sheppard station on Crosstown East. Confirmation that the SM-LRT EA needs to be reviewed, and that Kennedy Station will need to be reconfigured. Not exactly surprises.
 
Adjei said:
That's how everyone in the reason should be thinking and not thinking only about what happens in their city. There needs to be more of a regional thinking going on.
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Completely agree. Everyone should be thinking like that. I suppose I just never expected to see it. Good on Tory though. Transit planning does go beyond the 416 borders.
 
crs1026 said:
coverage of the announcement two days ago re Eglinton West clearly alluded to this.

When I have time I will sit down and find the reference.
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salsa said:
Now that the news has had some time to sink in, it's time to figure out how to make this subway work. This article explores some of the decisions that lie ahead that could affect the cost of the subway. Should it be a twin tunnel or single bore tunnel, above ground or underground, what is the projected ridership, are more stations a possibility, and should all trains go to Scarborough Centre or will some of them short turn at Kennedy.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ad-on-cost-design-of-scarborough-transit.html
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Nothing will piss off people more than short-turning at Kennedy. A good chunk of that ridership is STC bound. Hence the SRT today.
 
Instead of having a 6km subway extension to one station, they may as well keep the RT from Ellesmere to STC and transfer to that off of SmartTrack to get to the STC. It would also be better for those coming from the north going to STC.
 
SmartTrack seems to have stations at Lawrence and Ellesmere, where the SRT has currently. There will be no stations at Midland and at McCowan, which the current SRT serves. However, while SmartTrack has no Scarborough Town Centre station, there will be a subway station instead for the 2 Bloor-Danforth line instead. In addition, there will be 17 additional light rapid transit stops.

to0122_transit_plan_web.jpg


Looks better than what Ford wanted.

Still think they should run the 2 Bloor-Danforth extension as an express using the SmartTrack right-of-way. Either in the open or underground.
 
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