The "Existing Scarborough RT" doesn't extend to Malvern. Nice job, NP.
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nfitz
Superstar
That graphic is the Transit City Plan, not the existing. And it did extend it to Malvern - as numerous maps showed at the time.
But there's nothing "existing" about the Scarborough RT beyond McCowan. If it were shown properly, it would show the RT from Kennedy to McCowan as existing, and the extension to Malvern as "proposed". It's just sloppy is what I'm saying.
salsa
Senior Member
The slides used for the media briefing is now posted.
http://www.slideshare.net/TorontoPC...nnel=240652cc66061410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
http://www.slideshare.net/TorontoPC...nnel=240652cc66061410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
Cobra
Senior Member
After reading the reports and comments, I'm warming up to this plan.
1-Subway Extension
I understand the optics of building a 1 stop subway shuttle to Scarborough Town Center looks bad however, that area has been badly neglected and it's potential for growth has been under utilized. I believed that the subway shuttle to STC will in fact revitalized and gentrified the surrounding areas. We keep complaining on how the downtown core and areas like City Place and Liberty Village are overcrowding our transit infrastructure down there.
This is another type of "relief" if you identify STC as Toronto's Eastern Downtown by making it irresistible to business, commercial and residential investment and development. That's a clever way to bring extra growth to the city without overtaxing downtown and it's infrastructure simply because there's nowhere else attractive to go and invest. If that subway investment can bring all those benefits in a long term and durable optic then it's definitely worth it. I haven't came across a single report stating the original LRT plan would bring more growth then the subway. I get it's cheaper but for a major centre, potentially the "beacon of the east" it shouldn't only be about cost here and fyi, the ridership is there and this wouldn't be the first time in the world that a shuttle service subway exists.
2-Smarttrack East in the RT corridor
Mixed feelings about it. I believe Smarttrack as a whole should be GO RER. Keep the station but have RER service them at a TTC fare. (ideally) The extra savings for not duplicating the service could perhaps be reinvested:
-Subway Extension to Sheppard Avenue East and/or Rapid Transit on Sheppard East
-Waterfront LRT
-North South Rapid transit in Etobicoke
-"down payment" for the DRL
Smarttrack beyond Steeles is total none sense if it stays.
3-Crosstown East
Excellent Decision. It should reach Sheppard Avenue ideally.
44 North
Senior Member
I believe there was in fact a report last year (by U of T?) that claimed the SRT/S(L)RT would be better for attracting major development. Not positive, and I didn't end up reading it. But it kinda makes sense that it would, considering with a light metro vs heavy rail one-stop metro there's more stations, more length, more connections, and thereby more nodal development opportunities. With the subway being shorter and losing two stations, this would be doubly true.
salsa
Senior Member
The city tried for decades to direct growth to suburban centres, and it didn't work. What makes you think that will change this time around?
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torontologist
Active Member
THANK YOU. When I read the report from city planning talking about "business development and creation of an urban centre", I couldn't believe it. Didn't we come to the conclusion that this polycentric growth model doesn't work in the real world like, what, 20 years ago? I get it that they need to come up with some sort of justification for the subway extension but.... ugh.
coffey1
Active Member
SmartTrack seems to have stations at Lawrence and Ellesmere, where the SRT has currently. There will be no stations at Midland and at McCowan, which the current SRT serves. However, while SmartTrack has no Scarborough Town Centre station, there will be a subway station instead for the 2 Bloor-Danforth line instead. In addition, there will be 17 additional light rapid transit stops.
Looks better than what Ford wanted.
Still think they should run the 2 Bloor-Danforth extension as an express using the SmartTrack right-of-way. Either in the open or underground.
Im sure you didnt mean to imply this but there is a false narrative that Miller's Transit City plan was fully funded & it seems to receive a direct comparison to the only the FULLY funded portions of new transit plans. What is shown above is not a fair comparison. It's like taking the entire Stintz/GlennD "One City" plan and comparing to Tory's latest. It is apples to oranges.
For Miller's FUNDED TC plan the entire SMLRT line was not funded nor was it even on Metrolinx "Next wave" Also the Sheppard LRT connection to the subway stub and ended at Morningside, not Meadowvale as shown above.
Theoretically the Sheppard funding has gone untouched so it could actually be shown on Tory's plan as future, but the SMLRT shouldn't be shown on Millers because no funding whatsoever had been secured
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kEiThZ
Superstar
I think this opens up other possibilities. With the subway terminating at SC, it'd be possible to put an at-grade LRT on Progress to Malvern or up Markham. No need to grade-separate.
kEiThZ
Superstar
If it's true that change can't really be affected, then there's equal reason to distrust projections about development due to LRTs. Just saying.
Going forward from now, it's not just the City. The province is backing on its Urban Growth Centre's absorbing a lot of population and job growth.
Cobra
Senior Member
Tell me what was done 20 years ago to meet those targets...cause I can't see it
Cobra
Senior Member
You'll have to refresh my memory and tell me how did the city tried to meet those targets...Most people would agree not much was done since then unless you're referring to that incomplete "stubway" and that ill conceived Kennedy station and neglected SRT....
Great way to meet ambitious targets with tools like theses...
LNahid2000
Senior Member
North York Centre has great transit yet they only got 800 additional jobs between 1986 and 2006. What makes you think Scarborough Centre will fare any better?
salsa
Senior Member
How is the city supposed to compete against low taxes and cheap land in the 905? If you think a subway station will change everything, well...Etobicoke Centre had a subway line, it didn't grow. North York Centre had a subway line, an infill station was added at Mel Lastman Square, the Sheppard line was started. Yet nearly all of the prime land surrounding these stations remained vacant for many years, then were eventually sold off for residential development. In Scarborough, what little commercial development has occurred is dispersed far away from the actual transit line, while McCowan station remains surrounded by parking lots on all sides. Even in Mississauga, when was the last time an office building was built in the city centre? That city received the lions share of employment growth over the last few decades, but it all went to Meadowvale and Pearson airport. If even Mississauga is unable to bring jobs to their city centre, what makes you think Scarborough will pull it off?