Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

Right. For the 40K people who now take the SRT, $2 billion is $50,000 each. That's about the same as family income out there. How many people on the RT wouldn't take $50K, TAX FREE, over a subway extension that saves them a transfer at Kennedy?

Politicians should NOT do transit planning.

You can say the same about pretty much any project. 40,000 passengers per day isn't to be sniffed at. Pearson Airport only handles about 85,000 passengers per day, and they've spent far over $4-billion on that airport! Do you think we should have not built it? #LyingWithStatistics

 

[innsertnamehere]

difference is that for the airport 85,000 different people use it every day. for toronto, it is 40,000 of the same people every day.

 

[Forgotten]

@Forgotten

How would LRT change anything? Most would be accessing the LRT by bus. They'd just have a shorter bus ride.

The TTC says that extending the LRT to Malvern will save me 11mins overall. Guess what? It's a wash if the subway is extended to STC because I would save 5-10 mins from the transfer.

And unless you live in the immediate vicinity of the SRT station, most will benefit, because the vast majority of riders arrive at an SRT station by bus, which will be routed to a subway station in the future.

The area with the most walk-ins by the way? McCowan/STC.

Three options:
a) Build new major terminal at Sheppard
b) Drop passengers in the middle of the street at Progress/Triton
c) Reuse existing bus terminal at STC

I'm going to assume C is most likely, B possibly, A very unlikely. Have fun.

 

[datamouse]

The TTC ridership projection of approximately 9,500 persons/hr (peak direction) for the subway option, is based on an evaluation undertaken in 2006. A more recent preliminary assessment undertaken by City Transportation Planning staff has resulted in a higher number of approximately 14,000 persons/hr (peak direction) reflecting more current transit network and land use forecasting assumptions.

That's a hell of a difference in projections.

 

[nfitz]

That's a hell of a difference in projections.

There's different assumptions though. The earlier estimate was for an extension to Scarborough Centre. This new proposal adds an extra stop at Sheppard/McCowan that intersects with an LRT line - and also adds the east-west Eglinton line at Kennedy, which some people in Scarborough will also use, and then take the subway to Kennedy and switch to the LRT.

 

[datamouse]

There's different assumptions though. The earlier estimate was for an extension to Scarborough Centre. This new proposal adds an extra stop at Sheppard/McCowan that intersects with an LRT line - and also adds the east-west Eglinton line at Kennedy, which some people in Scarborough will also use, and then take the subway to Kennedy and switch to the LRT.

Shouldn't the TTC have taken all that into account back in January or February when they were analyzing the subway option and still came out with the 9k number?

 

[drum118]

Right. For the 40K people who now take the SRT, $2 billion is $50,000 each. That's about the same as family income out there. How many people on the RT wouldn't take $50K, TAX FREE, over a subway extension that saves them a transfer at Kennedy?

Politicians should NOT do transit planning.

You are forgetting that the current line can only handle your numbers based on the existing fleet.

If the fleet was larger, the number would be higher.

If you plan a under capacity system, you will never carry the real number of riders or provide them with good service.

 

[kEiThZ]

@k10ery

So transit investment is now based on income??

And people wonder why Scarborough residents feel hard done by. It's this exact mentality.

 

[nfitz]

Shouldn't the TTC have taken all that into account back in January or February when they were analyzing the subway option and still came out with the 9k number?

Perhaps there wasn't time - or a budget to do the modelling.

 

[Adjei]

So much for no new tax increases! Seems you have to increase taxes to fund new subways, who would have thought!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

@k10ery

So transit investment is now based on income??

And people wonder why Scarborough residents feel hard done by. It's this exact mentality.

Keep in mind these are the same people yelling socialism, calling liberals commies in the Toronto Sun, etc. A little reminder that just because you work does not mean you're on my level (elitism) is the retort most used. I don't agree. But it is what it is.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Despite my posts I am happy though. Frankly I would like this to go to McCowan and Finch and bring the Finch LRT all the way across town.

I would also now like to see a Warden and Islington LRT.

 

[rbt]

So much for no new tax increases! Seems you have to increase taxes to fund new subways, who would have thought!

You don't, actually. Not relative to the Miller days at least.

If Ford rolled back his earlier tax reductions (2% property tax reduction relative to inflation, and elimination of car registration fee), it would give him around $100M/year to put against the capital budget.

He also has the option of using future Metrolinx revenue against it IFF he endorses a GTA wide revenue plan. Toronto's annual cut would be about $75M/year, sufficient to pay for this extension and required Bloor/Danforth upgrades.

 

[k10ery]

There's different assumptions though. The earlier estimate was for an extension to Scarborough Centre. This new proposal adds an extra stop at Sheppard/McCowan that intersects with an LRT line - and also adds the east-west Eglinton line at Kennedy, which some people in Scarborough will also use, and then take the subway to Kennedy and switch to the LRT.

It also assumes a DRL is built. It all seems pretty conjectural.

And don't get me started on our outrageously overbuilt airport...

 

[k10ery]

@k10ery

So transit investment is now based on income??

And people wonder why Scarborough residents feel hard done by. It's this exact mentality.

That wasn't my point. I meant that it's a lot of money, and there is no way the riders themselves could value the Kennedy transfer that highly. Given the choice, they would take the money, not the subway. So why build the subway? If politicians want to do something for Scarborough, make it a sensible thing that people actually want, be it an LRT system, or new jobs, or parks, or yes even tax cuts.

@drum: Yes the current ridership is low. But both the LRT and subway can serve the future demand, so I don't see what your argument has to do with the choice. Yes, the forecast for subway is somewhat higher, but I don't know how much we can trust that number.

@denfromoakville: Really?