Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Kyle Campbell]

600 is the actual released official number from Octranspo, which is higher than metrolinx's number. As for the actual number, no Citadis Spirit actually runs in revenue service so everybody is doing best guesses. And if you really want to nit pick, the coupled length of the train is actually 98.4 m with the gap between the two vehicles.

As for metre... Typing on a phone. The joys of autocorrect. It changes half the words I'm typing

 

[Kyle Campbell]

As for London and how I'd group it would be on the system level, not the line level.... DLR is a light metro, the tube is a metro. This discussion doesn't really add any value to the Scarborough subway debate though, so if you're quite done let's move on

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Tory still refuses to release the updated Scarborough subway cost before the election (it will be known in September). I doubt anything's going to change, but I sure hope we find out somehow during the campaign.

Updated Scarborough subway costs will be ready but not made public before the next election

Could a FOI action succeed in getting this information released?

Maybe. Depends on who, and how well written.

Need to find a party that might have more independence.

Metrolinx? University of Toronto?

I expect a leak would be more likely.

Many eyes have seen this report. You can bet your bottom dollar that reporters are using their City Hall contacts to get a copy of the report. Hopefully it gets leaked.

 

[44 North]

Given that the Montreal Metro uses narrow (2.5 metre) trains compared to Vancouver Skytrain, Toronto Subway Line 3 (Scarborough RT) and Line 5 (Eglinton LRT) (all 2.65 metres), or even a Toronto TTC streetcar (2.54 m) - why do you place it in the same class as the 3.14 metre wide Toronto subway, .

I thought Line 3 was 2.5m, ditto for Vancouver's first gen of the same cars. The added 15cm for their second and third gen vehicles comes from widening the vehicle around seat height. Which I think Montreal's new Azur do as well. So 2.5m floor width, ~2.65 around waist level. Not sure tho.

Many eyes have seen this report. You can bet your bottom dollar that reporters are using their City Hall contacts to get a copy of the report. Hopefully it gets leaked.

If SSE comes in higher than originally estimated, which I think is so bizarre considering its already high pricetag for a single station, then that does not bode well for any other subway project. What would RL and YNSE be, like ~$10bn each?

 

[OneCity]

If SSE comes in higher than originally estimated, which I think is so bizarre considering its already high pricetag for a single station, then that does not bode well for any other subway project. What would RL and YNSE be, like ~$10bn each?

Good point, and that excludes the inevitable political chaos that would ensue immediately after which would spill far deeper than just transit. If anyone thinks the last decade was bad after Miller, I cant even begin to imagine. Saying that I don't even think anyone outside of the usual council suspects would even is consider not moving forward and these subway costs may already be uploaded to the Province prior to the municipal election.

 

[syn]

If SSE comes in higher than originally estimated, which I think is so bizarre considering its already high pricetag for a single station, then that does not bode well for any other subway project. What would RL and YNSE be, like ~$10bn each?

The difference is that the RL is completely worth $10 billion.

Forget any price increase; the SSE as designed is currently not worth the estimated cost of nearly $4 billion. I don't think there's anything they can do to this plan to make it anymore worthwhile, as it's already been stripped to the bone.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Is any 6km stretch of subway worth $10 billion? That number is absolutely ridiculous. How did the cost to construct 6km of subway go from less than $3 billion for spadina to $10 billion for the DRL? Even if it matches the current estimate of $6.8 billion.. That is a huge, huge increase. $6.8 billion is already over a billion per km. That is NYC level costs there. At some point I feel like we need to take a step back and ask ourselves how the hell costs got that high. Where the hell is that money going?

I too would be surprised to see costs increase further on the SSE. The current estimate already seems quite high.

 

[salsa]

Tory still refuses to release the updated Scarborough subway cost before the election (it will be known in September). I doubt anything's going to change, but I sure hope we find out somehow during the campaign.

Updated Scarborough subway costs will be ready but not made public before the next election

In any normal city, a debacle like this would have been a scandal of the highest order from day one.

Anyway, lets quibble over the technicalities of TTC subway trains vs other cities, and the true definition of 'light metro'. It's important that we get to the bottom of this.

 

[syn]

Is any 6km stretch of subway worth $10 billion? That number is absolutely ridiculous. How did the cost to construct 6km of subway go from less than $3 billion for spadina to $10 billion for the DRL? Even if it matches the current estimate of $6.8 billion.. That is a huge, huge increase. $6.8 billion is already over a billion per km. That is NYC level costs there. At some point I feel like we need to take a step back and ask ourselves how the hell costs got that high. Where the hell is that money going?

I too would be surprised to see costs increase further on the SSE. The current estimate already seems quite high.

I was speaking in the context of current Toronto subway cost estimates, but this is a valid point. If I recall there are some digging issues which have added to the cost of subway building in Scarborough.

The cost for the subway with one stop was originally $2 billion. This plan was put in place when the city realized a three stop extension would cost at least $4 billion. In under two years the cost has went from $2 billion to nearly $4 billion. My expectation is that the next estimate will contain yet another cost increase.

 

[Cobra]

The higher the cost escalate, the less building a one stop subway makes sense. At the same time, the more reintroducing Lawrence East will become a no brainer

 

[syn]

The higher the cost escalate, the less building a one stop subway makes sense. At the same time, the more reintroducing Lawrence East will become a no brainer

The problem is that adding an additional station or stations will increase the costs substantially. The city didn't feel a $4 billion extension cost for three stops made any sense, so why would they add others at this point?

Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

 

[crs1026]

Is it too late to investigate cut and cover construction instead of the deep tunnel?

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is it too late to investigate cut and cover construction instead of the deep tunnel?

- Paul

Never too late, but it will add time and I am sure there will be a political price to be paid for even considering a method that is disruptive to the neighbourhood. But frankly a day of reckoning is coming when the cost goes beyond what's envisioned by the special levy.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

Another thing to remember is that with every cost escalation of the subway, there will probably be a similar escalation of the LRT.

The LRT option is not exactly going to be a $1.4 billion project any longer. Try 2.5 or more.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Another thing to remember is that with every cost escalation of the subway, there will probably be a similar escalation of the LRT.

The LRT option is not exactly going to be a $1.4 billion project any longer. Try 2.5 or more.

I don't think the city should even considering going that route at this point. It's counterproductive. I think we need a czar for transit capital works - one who isn't afraid of knocking a few heads around if necessary.

AoD