amnesiajune
Senior Member
What does this mean? Got more information?
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What does this mean? Got more information?
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Originally, the TYSSE stations were to have platform doors standard. Then they decided not to have them because the rest of the system didn't. However, they didn't realize that the platform door structures held the roof of the platform level up, so they had to redesign the roofs. Therefore, the stations costed more and longer to design than originally.
pman
Senior Member
That’s so Toronto.
rbt
Senior Member
Not quite. They killed them because you need ATO to run trains at a reasonable frequency with them and that project was going quite poorly at the time the decision was made. In fact, since then the originally planned ATO implementation was completely abandoned and then retendered under a different design.
A very real possibility was the Spadina line opening being delayed by years due to the ATO implementation issues; or at very least running with much lower frequencies than the rest of the system.
syn
Senior Member
Tory still refuses to release the updated Scarborough subway cost before the election (it will be known in September). I doubt anything's going to change, but I sure hope we find out somehow during the campaign.
Updated Scarborough subway costs will be ready but not made public before the next election
Updated Scarborough subway costs will be ready but not made public before the next election
Towered
Senior Member
nfitz
Superstar
Given that the Montreal Metro uses narrow (2.5 metre) trains compared to Vancouver Skytrain, Toronto Subway Line 3 (Scarborough RT) and Line 5 (Eglinton LRT) (all 2.65 metres), or even a Toronto TTC streetcar (2.54 m) - why do you place it in the same class as the 3.14 metre wide Toronto subway, if you've made a second class for other wider vehicles?
There's nothing that constrains LRT or Skytrain trains from being as long as a Montreal Metro train, as far as I know.
pman
Senior Member
Could a FOI action succeed in getting this information released?
nfitz
Superstar
Maybe. Depends on who, and how well written.
Need to find a party that might have more independence.
Metrolinx? University of Toronto?
I expect a leak would be more likely.
Kyle Campbell
Active Member
Metro vs Light metro is based on system capacity, not vehicle length/type. Montreal has 9 car trains and 150m platforms moving more than double the people of the skytrain which has 80m and 4 car trains. A 150m skytrain would be full metro my books.
Likewise the difference between light metro (confederation line/skytrain) and LRT is again not the vehicle but whether the system is fully grade separated or not. A fully grade separated system can obviously move faster, but can also often have longer platforms because you're not constrained by block length that would block traffic.
That being said LRT is a vast catch all. The C-Train outside of downtown has at grade crossings for cars and pedestrians in the station, but they are all railway style and so the train moves about as fast as a grade separated one, compared to any of the metrolinx LRTs which have to wait at the same red lights as cars. Calgary has an advantage though due to broad highway like "Trails". I don't think you could build such a system in any major Eastern Canadian city.
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Kyle Campbell
Active Member
Another way to draw the line is to compare the Sheppard subway vs the confederation line. Both run 100m long trains fully segregated at 5 minute intervals, but the TRs can hold almost 200 people more under crush load conditions, so despite all other things being equal the capacity is much higher on Sheppard.
nfitz
Superstar
Platform length!
So what about when Montreal used to only run 6-car trains on Line 5 - only 98.5 metres long. If 80 metres is light metro, and 150 metres is metro, what is 98.5 metres?
What about the 4-car Toronto Line 4 trains? They are only 92 metres long?
What about London's varying length tube trains? Are they metro or light metro? Taking the 1992 stock for example, they can run in 4-car trains (65 metres long) on the Waterloo & City line, but in up to 8-car trains (130 metres) on the Central line.
nfitz
Superstar
Sheppard trains are not 100m long, nor do they run every 5 minutes.
They are 92 metres long, and run ever 5.5 minutes.
I'm unaware of what the 4-car TR crush condition load is, only off-peak and peak. Which is 370 and 740 people.
If you mean the not-yet-operating Confederation line in Ottawa, they are using the same 48.5-metre long vehicles planned for TTC's Line 6.
The off-peak and peak numbers released for them, in a 2-car 97-metre long train is 260 (off-peak) and 584 peak - far less than the shorter Sheppard train.
Alstom reports an unbelievable 680 people for a 2-car train ... which is presumably crush - but as far as I can figure, requires 260 parents with children in their lap, and another 160 people standing.
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Kyle Campbell
Active Member
Why are you nit picking for the sake of it? Fine. The Ottawa confederation line opening later this year running 97 meter Alstom citadis trains has a projected peak load of 600 people versus... yadda yadda.
Light metro is an actual (but not standardized) term:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-capacity_rail_system
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nfitz
Superstar
Sorry? Nit-pick? You are the one who thinks a 4-car TTC subway train is 10% longer than it is.
And really, I'm supposed to trust the math of someone who can't even spell metre?
How does Ottawa get 600 people in a 2-car train, at peak, when Metrolinx's reported 584 people peak load already defies belief. Surely anything above 500 is hard to swallow. The tightest loaded streetcar the TTC operates, is the 15-metre long CLRV with a peak capacity of 74. A 97-metre train would be the equivalent of about 6.5 CLRVs, which would equal a peak capacity of only 485. And that's not low-floor, so you have much better space usage.
How do you manage to suddenly cram 20% more people in when they are only 11 centimetres wider (4 %) The TRs in comparison are almost 2-feet wider (24% wider).
I think you are taking the numbers you are seeing too much on faith, and no questioning their unlikeliness.
Not standardized at all. As previously discussed here, my understanding is that a regular Metro are the ones with big parking lots, and about 20 aisles, while a light Metro has a limited selection, and neither butcher nor fishmonger. Let alone a decent cheesemonger.
Light Metro's aren't very common in Ontario, but I did manage to snap on in Quebec, where they are better known as a "Marché Richelieu". Though probably more frequently, simply a dep these days.
So, 4-car London tube train - Metro or dep?