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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

The subway can go up to Sheppard & McCowan, via STC. Then, an LRT line can be added up McCowan, reaching Hwy 7 / Markville mall.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...scarborough-subway-scrap-lrt/article13132509/

Ontario, Toronto close in on deal to build Scarborough subway, scrap LRT

ADRIAN MORROW AND ELIZABETH CHURCH
TORONTO — The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Jul. 11 2013, 6:00 AM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Jul. 11 2013, 7:19 AM EDT


The Ontario government and the City of Toronto are moving closer to a deal to build a subway extension in Scarborough and cancel a previously approved light-rail line – an agreement that could come as soon as next week.

The two sides have been in talks over the matter, Queen’s Park and City Hall sources said, including discussions between Premier Kathleen Wynne’s staff and aides to Mayor Rob Ford. Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Glen Murray also met with TTC chair Karen Stintz last week, and provincial officials have been in touch with city councillors.

“There’s communication and there is reason for optimism,†a source in the mayor’s office said.

The possible deal is a tectonic shift for Queen’s Park. This spring, the government insisted it would move forward with an LRT to replace the aging Scarborough Rapid Transit line and publicly ruled out extending the Bloor-Danforth subway line instead. And last week, provincial transit agency Metrolinx said that, if the city wanted a subway, it would be on the hook for the entire additional cost – estimated at nearly $1-billion.

But, in an interview with The Globe and Mail, Mr. Murray now says the province is “not asking [city hall] for money.â€

Rather, if city council endorses a subway at its meeting next week, the province will sit down with the city to find a way to make it happen.

“We’ve certainly been flexible in the past and will continue to be when it comes to accommodating a municipality,†he said. “It will be over my dead body that Scarborough goes wanting for high speed, rapid transit. I’m not prepared for people in Scarborough to miss this round … whatever mountain I have to climb as transportation minister, I’m prepared.â€

The province and the city would have to agree on a method of paying for the line. That could mean a new dedicated tax or a debt-financing arrangement. City manager Joe Pennachetti said he will bring forward a list of possibilities by Friday.

The potential for a deal comes as Ms. Wynne separately looks for consensus on new revenue tools to pay for $50-billion worth of new transit across Greater Toronto and Hamilton. Liberal insiders hope the discussion on funding options for the subway will also get the city to think seriously about how to raise cash to pay for transit more generally.

A Scarborough subway would be a boon to Ms. Wynne’s Liberals, who are fighting to shore up support in the area ahead of an Aug. 1 by-election. The Premier is also said to be under pressure from her own caucus: behind closed doors, Scarborough MPPs have pushed for a subway, government sources said. A strong vote next week from council supporting a subway extension would provide the Premier with political cover to change the LRT strategy.

Councillor Michael Thompson, who represents central Scarborough, said Queen’s Park’s current proposition “makes perfect sense†and he was optimistic council could agree to a funding plan to make a subway happen.

“I think it’s fair for the province to say, ‘Okay, if you want that, then you need to figure out a way to add additional resources,’†he said. “Resources have to come from somewhere, that’s the reality of it.â€

Mr. Thompson indicated he was scheduled to discuss the matter with someone from the province this week.

Scarborough Southwest Councillor Michelle Berardinetti has long argued Queen’s Park cannot expect Scarborough residents to support new fees and taxes to pay for transit if they do not get a subway in return.

“The province needs to step up to the plate, otherwise they will be letting down the people of Scarborough,†she said. “You can’t go to residents with revenue tools and not even deliver a subway.â€

In general, the relationship between Ms. Wynne and Mr. Ford, which had been frosty, is starting to improve: the Premier called the Mayor on Tuesday, and the pair had a 10-minute discussion about Toronto flooding. The talk was described as “cordial†by a source in Mr. Ford’s office.

The city and province reached a deal last year to build four light-rail lines. Then, this spring, some councillors changed their minds about the Scarborough project and pushed to have it built as a subway. The LRT would operate in a dedicated right of way, using a hydro corridor and an elevated viaduct, and would travel roughly as fast as a subway. A subway’s primary advantage would be to eliminate the need to transfer at Kennedy station.

A change of plans on the Scarborough subway would not affect the light-rail projects on Eglinton, Finch and Sheppard avenues.
 
drum118 said:
Please tell us the cost to convert the SRT to LRT and explain the timeline to do the work to STC let alone taking the line east?
Click to expand...

You have access to the exact same reports as I do Drum. Go roll up your sleeves. They aren't hard to find.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
CDL.TO said:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...scarborough-subway-scrap-lrt/article13132509/

Ontario, Toronto close in on deal to build Scarborough subway, scrap LRT

ADRIAN MORROW AND ELIZABETH CHURCH
TORONTO — The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Jul. 11 2013, 6:00 AM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Jul. 11 2013, 7:19 AM EDT


The Ontario government and the City of Toronto are moving closer to a deal to build a subway extension in Scarborough and cancel a previously approved light-rail line – an agreement that could come as soon as next week.

The two sides have been in talks over the matter, Queen’s Park and City Hall sources said, including discussions between Premier Kathleen Wynne’s staff and aides to Mayor Rob Ford. Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Glen Murray also met with TTC chair Karen Stintz last week, and provincial officials have been in touch with city councillors.

“There’s communication and there is reason for optimism,†a source in the mayor’s office said.

The possible deal is a tectonic shift for Queen’s Park. This spring, the government insisted it would move forward with an LRT to replace the aging Scarborough Rapid Transit line and publicly ruled out extending the Bloor-Danforth subway line instead. And last week, provincial transit agency Metrolinx said that, if the city wanted a subway, it would be on the hook for the entire additional cost – estimated at nearly $1-billion.

But, in an interview with The Globe and Mail, Mr. Murray now says the province is “not asking [city hall] for money.â€

Rather, if city council endorses a subway at its meeting next week, the province will sit down with the city to find a way to make it happen.

“We’ve certainly been flexible in the past and will continue to be when it comes to accommodating a municipality,†he said. “It will be over my dead body that Scarborough goes wanting for high speed, rapid transit. I’m not prepared for people in Scarborough to miss this round … whatever mountain I have to climb as transportation minister, I’m prepared.â€

The province and the city would have to agree on a method of paying for the line. That could mean a new dedicated tax or a debt-financing arrangement. City manager Joe Pennachetti said he will bring forward a list of possibilities by Friday.

The potential for a deal comes as Ms. Wynne separately looks for consensus on new revenue tools to pay for $50-billion worth of new transit across Greater Toronto and Hamilton. Liberal insiders hope the discussion on funding options for the subway will also get the city to think seriously about how to raise cash to pay for transit more generally.

A Scarborough subway would be a boon to Ms. Wynne’s Liberals, who are fighting to shore up support in the area ahead of an Aug. 1 by-election. The Premier is also said to be under pressure from her own caucus: behind closed doors, Scarborough MPPs have pushed for a subway, government sources said. A strong vote next week from council supporting a subway extension would provide the Premier with political cover to change the LRT strategy.

Councillor Michael Thompson, who represents central Scarborough, said Queen’s Park’s current proposition “makes perfect sense†and he was optimistic council could agree to a funding plan to make a subway happen.

“I think it’s fair for the province to say, ‘Okay, if you want that, then you need to figure out a way to add additional resources,’†he said. “Resources have to come from somewhere, that’s the reality of it.â€

Mr. Thompson indicated he was scheduled to discuss the matter with someone from the province this week.

Scarborough Southwest Councillor Michelle Berardinetti has long argued Queen’s Park cannot expect Scarborough residents to support new fees and taxes to pay for transit if they do not get a subway in return.

“The province needs to step up to the plate, otherwise they will be letting down the people of Scarborough,†she said. “You can’t go to residents with revenue tools and not even deliver a subway.â€

In general, the relationship between Ms. Wynne and Mr. Ford, which had been frosty, is starting to improve: the Premier called the Mayor on Tuesday, and the pair had a 10-minute discussion about Toronto flooding. The talk was described as “cordial†by a source in Mr. Ford’s office.

The city and province reached a deal last year to build four light-rail lines. Then, this spring, some councillors changed their minds about the Scarborough project and pushed to have it built as a subway. The LRT would operate in a dedicated right of way, using a hydro corridor and an elevated viaduct, and would travel roughly as fast as a subway. A subway’s primary advantage would be to eliminate the need to transfer at Kennedy station.

A change of plans on the Scarborough subway would not affect the light-rail projects on Eglinton, Finch and Sheppard avenues.
Click to expand...

If they actually do this, I suggest they scrap the Sheppard LRT as well (so they can get rid of that new LRT yard on Morningside all together). Share the costs of the Sheppard LRT and Scarb RT (should be around 2.7 billion between the 2) and use it to extend Sheppard Subway 2 stops to Vic Park (highly needed since Vic Park and Sheppard is quite busy with the business park and number of residential buildings), then widen Sheppard to 3 lanes each, and put the long buses on that roue with priority bus lane (like Don Mills) all the way to McCowan). Use any savings to upgrade the Streetcar network (like partial ROW on King Street).
 
nhui06 said:
If they actually do this, I suggest they scrap the Sheppard LRT as well (so they can get rid of that new LRT yard on Morningside all together). Share the costs of the Sheppard LRT and Scarb RT (should be around 2.7 billion between the 2) and use it to extend Sheppard Subway 2 stops to Vic Park (highly needed since Vic Park and Sheppard is quite busy with the business park and number of residential buildings), then widen Sheppard to 3 lanes each, and put the long buses on that roue with priority bus lane (like Don Mills) all the way to McCowan). Use any savings to upgrade the Streetcar network (like partial ROW on King Street).
Click to expand...

or just bring the subway to mccowan as well and then run the light rail from mccowan to dean park.
 
I preferred an LRT extension, but I think this might be better from a political perspective.

Pro: Now that Scarborough has their subway, the LRTs on Sheppard and Eglinton will hopefully be safer.
Pro: With additional funding required, the Mayor, Council, and the Province will have to suck it up and come up with a real revenue plan, which will open up the path to a broader transit revenue plan.
Pro: In general, this decision could act as a pressure release valve that depoliticizes the whole transit issue for a while, no matter who is in the Mayor's office or Queen's Park over the next few years.

Con: Ford will have an actual accomplishment that he can wave around during the election. Though the effect of this accomplishment will be softened by two things: 1. Stintz can claim that this was her accomplishment because she was the one with "the plan", and 2. The problem with Ford inventing so many fake accomplishments (e.g. We've brought transparency back to city hall! We have the lowest taxes in North America!) is that voters might not be able to keep track of the real ones.

Outside political concerns, I see a few good things about this:

1. If the RT doesn't fall apart, it can stay open while the subway goes in.
2. A subway station at McCowen and Progress could be a great impetus for re-planning that whole area. Maybe they could try to partner with a private developer and incorporate the station into a much larger development. Let them build as high as they want. Scarberians wanted urban transit, so they'll have to live with urban density.
3. There's potential for an additional station at the Danforth/Brimley/Eglinton triangle (assuming the plan is to route it that way).
 
Personally I think RF has a bit of a win-win issue on his hand anyway (if all else being equal) - getting a subway will be spun as "his success" while not getting one will just continue the rhetoric of how Scarborough is getting screwed. Though like you've said, it is bit of a pressure release valve, and the whole thing can be tied to the new revenue stream.

Besides (perhaps more importantly) - the line does have merit, and it will definitely increase pressure on Y+B such that DRL has to be on the books.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Personally I think RF has a bit of a win-win issue on his hand anyway (if all else being equal) - getting a subway will be spun as "his success" while not getting one will just continue the rhetoric of how Scarborough is getting screwed. Though like you've said, it is bit of a pressure release valve, and the whole thing can be tied to the new revenue stream.

Besides (perhaps more importantly) - the line does have merit, and it will definitely increase pressure on Y+B such that DRL has to be on the books.

AoD
Click to expand...

DRL becomes a code red priority now. Alvin no way YUS lasts beyond five years with all the scarberians coming through.
 
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den:

I know, but you can't just decide to build the DRL - it is simply not ready for construction, and I personally don't think we should hold the city back when a decision need to be made on what to build on line that is at the end of life.

And if Y+B becomes even more of a mess thanks to those riders from Scarborough, the diabolical side of me thinks even better - nothing educates more than experiencing hell first hand.

AoD
 
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