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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

AlvinofDiaspar said:
den:

I know, but you can't just decide to build the DRL - it is simply not ready for construction, and I personally don't think we should hold the city back when a decision need to be made on what to build on line that is at the end of life.

And if Y+B becomes even more of a mess thanks to those riders from Scarborough, the diabolical side of me thinks even better - nothing educates more than experiencing hell first hand.

AoD
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I just think it's sad we have to reach NYC-Tokyo levels of ridership and likely another huge accident before the city unites.
 
The Scarborough stretch of the line is almost express like, and future riders can transfer at Danforth onto a potential S-Bahn service that would probably be available at the time. Maybe even transfer the entire Scarborough stretch of the line to the localized GO route.
 
Silence&Motion said:
I preferred an LRT extension, but I think this might be better from a political perspective.

Con: Ford will have an actual accomplishment that he can wave around during the election. Though the effect of this accomplishment will be softened by two things: 1. Stintz can claim that this was her accomplishment because she was the one with "the plan", and 2. The problem with Ford inventing so many fake accomplishments (e.g. We've brought transparency back to city hall! We have the lowest taxes in North America!) is that voters might not be able to keep track of the real ones.
Click to expand...

It most definitely helps Ford's re-election though, yeah, it will likely be clear to any sane person that it's that backstabber Stintz, and the even-more-horrible Kathleen Wynne that made it happen. A sane person would see that Hudak + Ford would never do it, but then a sane person would also conclude that the crack video is totally real and RF has been straight-faced lying about it ever since.

Putting all that aside, it will interesting to see what the funding arrangement will be and Glen Murray's staunch defense of Scarborough's right to subways should raise eyebrows amongst people who think both the DRL and Yonge extensions are greater priorities. It would be nice to think that it shows the commitment to build the transit we need but I think all it really shows, is despite the Big Move, transit planning remains as parochial and political as ever. I would have less of a problem with this (putting aside that it's like the 10th time the construction of RT has been delayed by indecision) if it was part of a larger funding agreement to get several projects across the region moving. Instead it's just like Round 10 in a political game of chicken that may or may not be the last round, which may or may not be resulting in the most sensible project..Are we going to re-open the Finch LRT debate too? How do we know this won't come up again in a year?

It's just not how things should be working even if it's "right" but then what else is new?
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Rumour Mill - BD Extension in the works.

AoD
Click to expand...

I saw Glen Murray at the QQ LCBO last week, with two 40 ouncers of vodka/gin in hand. And this week we see the results.

But Murray seems to be back-peddling already. Let's hope the subway idea will be killed (again!) after the by-election.
 
k10ery said:
Let's hope the subway idea will be killed (again!) after the by-election.
Click to expand...

Ya, wouldn't that be great. It would show Wynne learned from the master of lying - Mcguinty. Mcguinty promises no new taxes, once elected the first time, he drops the health fee - largest one time tax increase for Ontario. Now Wynne is going to lie about the subway, just for one seat?

Whenever the next election is, Wynne would be killed. I'm actually liking Wynne right now, and if she does in fact pull this stunt, I'll lose any respect I'd gained for her.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
It most definitely helps Ford's re-election though, yeah, it will likely be clear to any sane person that it's that backstabber Stintz, and the even-more-horrible Kathleen Wynne that made it happen. A sane person would see that Hudak + Ford would never do it, but then a sane person would also conclude that the crack video is totally real and RF has been straight-faced lying about it ever since.

Putting all that aside, it will interesting to see what the funding arrangement will be and Glen Murray's staunch defense of Scarborough's right to subways should raise eyebrows amongst people who think both the DRL and Yonge extensions are greater priorities. It would be nice to think that it shows the commitment to build the transit we need but I think all it really shows, is despite the Big Move, transit planning remains as parochial and political as ever. I would have less of a problem with this (putting aside that it's like the 10th time the construction of RT has been delayed by indecision) if it was part of a larger funding agreement to get several projects across the region moving. Instead it's just like Round 10 in a political game of chicken that may or may not be the last round, which may or may not be resulting in the most sensible project..Are we going to re-open the Finch LRT debate too? How do we know this won't come up again in a year?

It's just not how things should be working even if it's "right" but then what else is new?
Click to expand...
Finch will be completed. No incentive for politics.
 
nhui06 said:
If they actually do this, I suggest they scrap the Sheppard LRT as well (so they can get rid of that new LRT yard on Morningside all together).
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What is the estimate on that Conlins Yard; $300M to $400M? I understand the accounting has is split between the SRT and SELRT.

The Scarborough-Malvern is not on Metrolinx's radar and Sheppard LRT is highly controversial.. The SMLRT has ridership low enough for BRT, or just bus. I agree that if (when) the Scarborough LRT is cancelled, the Conlins Yard should be scrapped as well.
 
Or pay the $500M and get Sheppard converted to LRT...maybe throw in a bit more to extend it to Downsview, and perhaps run Finch off it as well?

AoD
 
I'm not sure I understand the anti-subway sentiment of some here (and at city hall).

If they can find a way to fund this, it seems reasonable enough. The predicted ridership levels from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre are quite high, and presumably will only be higher if it continues to Sheppard and intersects the Sheppard LRT. The travel times are excellent. This stretch was certainly predicted to have higher ridership than any other of the Transit City LRT lines (other perhaps than Don Mills south of Eglinton - which also is a subway candidate) - this line wasn't even part of the original 7-line Transit City plan.

The only downsides I see, are loss of rapid transit to the existing Lawrence East area, loss of transit to Centennial, and future extension to Malvern. The latter could be done as a spur off the Sheppard LRT.
 
nfitz said:
I'm not sure I understand the anti-subway sentiment of some here (and at city hall).

If they can find a way to fund this, it seems reasonable enough. The predicted ridership levels from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre are quite high, and presumably will only be higher if it continues to Sheppard and intersects the Sheppard LRT. The travel times are excellent. This stretch was certainly predicted to have higher ridership than any other of the Transit City LRT lines (other perhaps than Don Mills south of Eglinton - which also is a subway candidate) - this line wasn't even part of the original 7-line Transit City plan.

The only downsides I see, are loss of rapid transit to the existing Lawrence East area, loss of transit to Centennial, and future extension to Malvern. The latter could be done as a spur off the Sheppard LRT.
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This is the problem. The subway means a net loss of rt. I want the Malvern LRT revived to bring transit there.
 
A win all around.

North Scarborough residents now get a one-seat ride from STC. Scarborough no longer feels like the neglected step-child.

And this will finally force discussion on running Eglinton through Kennedy station to Southeast Scarborough. They won't be getting screwed over by Eglinton turning into the SRT alignment and skipping them.

As for Sheppard, I'm changing my tune. If (and this is a huge condition for me), the BD line does get extended to Sheppard/McCowan, then I would argue that we should continue with the LRT. Not just continue. Convert the Sheppard subway to LRT. Eventually Sheppard can be extended west all the way to Weston and east all the way to the zoo. Add spurs along the way, such as to Malvern Town Centre via the hydro corridor or up Markham to Markham Main St..
 
nfitz said:
The only downsides I see, are loss of rapid transit to the existing Lawrence East area, loss of transit to Centennial, and future extension to Malvern. The latter could be done as a spur off the Sheppard LRT.
Click to expand...

It's only the immediate vicinity around Lawrence East station that loses. Hardly some great hotbed of density. Most riders were coming in by bus. The subway station will move just 2km down the road and will actually serve Scarborough General, a solid trip generator.

I'm not too worried about Malvern, because like you say, I do expect at some point that we'll see a spur from Sheppard. It's too easy for a quick win, not to be done at some point. Probably wouldn't be more than $100 million to pull off.

The largest hit is of course Centennial College. And while I do feel for them, they are no worse off than today. And broadly speaking, a college student having to take a bus for 3 years isn't as rough as being forced to make an unnecessary transfer as an area resident for a decade.
 
kEiThZ said:
A win all around.

North Scarborough residents now get a one-seat ride from STC. Scarborough no longer feels like the neglected step-child.

And this will finally force discussion on running Eglinton through Kennedy station to Southeast Scarborough. They won't be getting screwed over by Eglinton turning into the SRT alignment and skipping them.

As for Sheppard, I'm changing my tune. If (and this is a huge condition for me), the BD line does get extended to Sheppard/McCowan, then I would argue that we should continue with the LRT. Not just continue. Convert the Sheppard subway to LRT. Eventually Sheppard can be extended west all the way to Weston and east all the way to the zoo. Add spurs along the way, such as to Malvern Town Centre via the hydro corridor or up Markham to Markham Main St..
Click to expand...

In my ideal world, the BD is extended to Sheppard/McCowan and the Sheppard line (subway) is extended to that same intersection - from there you run an LRT network out into Scarborough.
 
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