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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Yes we can discuss hard data for another ten decades. Thats not his angle here.

Sure, that maybe his angle - but what have the proponents offered to support the superiority of their plan? So far what's being put forth is spending $3B on mediocrity. Why should the entire city be put in a position to fund something like cost so much and provide so little improvement? You yourself said that there are more preferable alternatives - but when push comes to shove, why should one default back to this?

AoD
 
Yes we can discuss hard data for another ten decades. Thats not his angle here.



Its evidence being collected to overturn the subway. One sided evidence. Like I said if he finds this useful in his quest that's his choice.

As a councillor if you cant compromise or see the flaws in the LRT plan by now you're part of the problem not the solution.

Stopping wasteful spending in the name of eliminating a transfer is not being part of a problem - its looking out for the City as a whole with our limited resources. Your blind eye to the actual data hurts your position - your distaste for the media sounds very Trump like which means your placing blame on the reporters that are presenting facts (if there are errors in some of their facts, let's hope the own up to it)

You are debating from an advantage because this "plan" has been approved of sorts in the past and has the mayor behind it - but the cold reality is that Scarborough is not better off with this Subway. That doesn't mean they would be better off with the LRT plan (as it was), but if you dont agree that for 90% of the residents that head to STC they will have a longer not shorter commute you are definitely ignoring the data.

You speak about flaws in the LRT plan - do you not see the gaping holes in the subway plan?
 
No, it is not.

We are gerrymandering most of Scarborough's bus routes to one station in order to serve one boondoggle of a subway extension.

One thing that hasn't received much attention is how that many buses is going to make STC a frustrating transit hub for users. All those buses are also not going to make STC a nicer place to be, if you ask me.

Plus of course, the plan has people in buses for longer than they were before. I don't know about other people, but buses are my least favorite part of my daily transit commute.
While this subway extension is a boondoggle wouldn't many of the buses that terminate or serve STC continue to do so even with the Scarborough LRT being built. The LRT will only add two new stations at Centennial College and Sheppard and Markham and i don't see the TTC terminating buses over there. The only changes to the bus network that would happen with the LRT being built would be that the 285 would not divert to STC and maybe the 133 would be diverted to serve the Sheppard and Markham station. While I dont agree with the subway it is important to note that buses would be the primary mode of transit in Toronto, especially Scarborough, and it is vital we invest more in them to make them more reliable and efficient.
 
You speak about flaws in the LRT plan - do you not see the gaping holes in the subway plan?

I do. But trying to push a rejected LRT plan is not going to help move the debate in any type of constructive manner to fix any of the issues. I have little interest in starting over or studying further. If they are just going to keep coming back zero improvements, nothing is going to change anyway. Subway vs. LRT is not the issue. Transfer locations, Smarttrack, corridor and stops are issues which should be addressed in any new plan.
 
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but the cold reality is that Scarborough is not better off with this Subway.
There's an even colder reality about to descend on those claiming to have Captains of Commerce on their almighty side:

The New Captain, appointed by investors (including the taxpayer) will demand a decision based on reports proving the business case for a $5B subway extension to Space Port STC.

The funding fantasy is about to evaporate...

And what will National Pest and Toronto Stun have to say then? "Socialists?"
 
There's an even colder reality about to descend on those claiming to have Captains of Commerce on their almighty side:

The New Captain, appointed by investors (including the taxpayer) will demand a decision based on reports proving the business case for a $5B subway extension to Space Port STC.

The funding fantasy is about to evaporate...

And what will National Pest and Toronto Stun have to say then? "Socialists?"

Another reality is about to come this election and it wont be an LRT or One stop. Just as the Globe and Fail and Downtown Star may be asking for.

...I just having fun in response to your media names. I really have no idea who will win the Election but certainly both plans have left the door wide open for Ford
 
Another reality is about to come this election and it wont be an LRT or One stop. Just as the Globe and Fail and Downtown Star may be asking for.

...Although im joking. I have no idea who will win the Election

Oh i love it ... you must be one of Trump's first twitter followers. I double this debate in this forum is influenced in any way by the media - people have reasonable opinions both ways. You are not trying to win an election here (unless there is a campaign for moderator i'm not aware of).

Your mention of corridor and stops undermines your own slant - less stops in a new corridor? How does that make any sense? Smartrack/RER should have been the blessing in disguise - get us on there with a TTC base fare and let's funnel our buses there instead of to a mall. If Scarborough riders want downtown so bad thats how you do it. How long of a ride will it be to downtown with bus to STC, subway to Bloor/Yonge and subway south? Tory knows, it will be shorter because people told him this subway would save them minutes! They told him that, the people!
 
Another reality is about to come this election and it wont be an LRT or One stop. Just as the Globe and Fail and Downtown Star may be asking for.

...I just having fun in response to your media names. I really have no idea who will win the Election but certainly both plans have left the door wide open for Ford
Ahh yes, the "Business Case"...kinda shook you up a bit, didn't it? It's 'Commie Talk' to those who can't abide by the pillars of practised commerce.

Speaking of which, how's that PostMedia business case coming along?

Postmedia reports quarterly loss of $99.4 million on steep declines in ...
business.financialpost.com/.../postmedia-reports-quarterly-loss-of-99-4-million-on-ste...
Oct 20, 2016 - Postmedia NewsPostmedia Network Inc. is Canada's largest newspaper company and the owner of the National Post.
Postmedia Slashing Salaries By 20 Per Cent As Losses Nearly Double
www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/10/20/postmedia-pay-cut_n_12578396.html
Oct 20, 2016 - TORONTO — Postmedia said Thursday it plans to reduce its salary costs by 20 per cent through voluntary staff buyouts, adding that layoffs are ...
 
While this subway extension is a boondoggle wouldn't many of the buses that terminate or serve STC continue to do so even with the Scarborough LRT being built.

While most the routes to STC would still remain, the volume of buses (particularly from the northeast) would be reduced.
 
Oh i love it ... you must be one of Trump's first twitter followers. I double this debate in this forum is influenced in any way by the media - people have reasonable opinions both ways. You are not trying to win an election here (unless there is a campaign for moderator i'm not aware of).

Your mention of corridor and stops undermines your own slant - less stops in a new corridor? How does that make any sense? Smartrack/RER should have been the blessing in disguise - get us on there with a TTC base fare and let's funnel our buses there instead of to a mall. If Scarborough riders want downtown so bad thats how you do it. How long of a ride will it be to downtown with bus to STC, subway to Bloor/Yonge and subway south? Tory knows, it will be shorter because people told him this subway would save them minutes! They told him that, the people!

Easy now. I responded in fun to the other posters who made the name National Pest and Toronto Stun. You didn't call him out and if you read my response I said it was in fun.

I have no idea what you are asking with that loaded question. Do you want my preference based on current plans overall preference? In general I support a subway with stops especially at Lawrence over Smartrack. I don't support the LRT transfer locations. I do support the Eglinton East LRT.

All other details have been debate over and over. If you really care to know anything else please ask and ill respond when I have time. Although I think you just want to make a cheeky useless Trump comment anyway
 
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I have no idea what you are asking with that loaded question. Do you want my preference based on current plans overall preference? In general I support a subway with stops especially at Lawrence over Smartrack. I don't support the LRT transfer locations. I don't support the Eglinton East LRT.
Typo?
 
This all boils down to one mayor stoking a transit inferiority complex in Scarborough and another indulging it.

The pro-Scar subway types are going to extract respect from the rest of the city by making it pay for this one stop subway. In practical terms in it will convenience some but it will inconvenience many others. But that's almost unimportant. The prevailing factor is that it will make Scarberians feel on par with the rest of the city and not second-class to downtown. Unfortunately the sum of low-information, ego, pandering and inertia in this city is greater than that of dispassionate consideration and political integrity.

"But I repeat for the hundredth time, there is one case, one only, when man may consciously, purposely, desire what is injurious to himself, what is stupid, very stupid--simply in order to have the right to desire for himself even what is very stupid and not to be bound by an obligation to desire only what is sensible. Of course, this very stupid thing, this caprice of ours, may be in reality, gentlemen, more advantageous for us than anything else on earth, especially in certain cases. And in particular it may be more advantageous than any advantage even when it does us obvious harm, and contradicts the soundest conclusions of our reason concerning our advantage--for in any circumstances it preserves for us what is most precious and most important--that is, our personality, our individuality."
 
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IMO, Sheppard East is more important than Lawrence East. However, it will be even more expensive (TBM under 401) while Lawrence East actually makes sense with a tunnel already going under it.
Sheppard East may not need to be as deep as Lawrence East will have to be, however.
 

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