Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TOareaFan]

And there have been some astounding revelations/admissions.

You can catch up on Oliver Moore's (and others ' twitter) but this one summarizes it well

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/846729558619512834

 

[nhui06]

According to David Miller's recent interview on MetroMorning, the Lawrence East stop (on the proposed route, at McCowan) is prohibitively expensive, due to the geology under the site.

I haven't seen any discussion of those costs for Lawrence East in reports, but I can't say I was actively looking for that either. So the question is, do we have any staff reports confirming David Miller's claim?

I think the Brimley alignment could make Lawrence East work. They will basically be using Thompson Park as the dig/station site. There is also alot of room on the Brimley side of STC to build a station there too. What are the pros of the McCowan alignment again (compared to Brimley)?

 

[salsa]

What are the pros of the McCowan alignment again (compared to Brimley)?

It's been debated to death previously.

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...ronto-design-phase.2975/page-722#post-1197179

 

[OneCity]

If they do go with the Subway, what are the chances of them adding back the Lawrence East subway stop? I believe that station will be used quite often (there is the Scarborough Hospital in the area for one), and it also gets rid of that 'one stop subway' tag.

This will likely come down to the election. I suspect Ford will cancel Smarttrack and will propose adding this stop and possibly an alternate route. If Torys plan carries after the next election I don't see him giving up on Smarttrack and Lawrence will stay as per the current scheme.

 

[TOareaFan]

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/846756266391298048

 

[steveintoronto]

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/846756266391298048

Here's what caught my eye in all of that:

Oliver Moore Retweeted
Rahul Gupta‏@TOinTransit 26m26 minutes ago



Rahul Gupta Retweeted Metrolinx

official release on McCuaig's departure

Rahul Gupta added,


Metrolinx@Metrolinx
Bruce McCuaig to leave Metrolinx to accept new role at Canada Infrastructure Bank http://bit.ly/2nrjbUO
0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes



Whoa...I have some concerns, but as always, the fine details are what matters. It might be a while until the curtain is pulled back on that act.

 

[salsa]

What Wallace writes in this response to Matlow's questions are significant. He confirms:

• The master agreement with province for LRT is still signed
• Neither of the other governments funding commitments "has progressed to a formal funding agreement at this time"
• A formal business case analysis to compare the LRT to subway has never been directed by council
• Council decided to build subway, staff provided business cases to back up decision by only comparing alignments of a subway
• Metrolinx confirms that a year could be saved by starting construction of the LRT at north end, contradicting TTC's claim about construction schedule

What's also really remarkable is that council didn't have this info years ago, that only through the efforts of one councillor did this come to light. That council didn't demand all the facts meant that much of debate to date has been based on partial or incorrect information. They have never even asked for a comparison between subway and LRT, and the debate has continued in absence of that info. They consistency voted against receiving more info, accepted misleading info, and rejected requests to prioritize transit plans based on evidence.

 

[salsa]

 

[OneCity]

What Wallace writes in this response to Matlow's questions are significant. He confirms:

• The master agreement with province for LRT is still signed
• Neither of the other governments funding commitments "has progressed to a formal funding agreement at this time"
• A formal business case analysis to compare the LRT to subway has never been directed by council
• Council decided to build subway, staff provided business cases to back up decision by only comparing alignments of a subway
• Metrolinx confirms that a year could be saved by starting construction of the LRT at north end, contradicting TTC's claim about construction schedule

What's also really remarkable is that council didn't have this info years ago, that only through the efforts of one councillor did this come to light. That council didn't demand all the facts meant that much of debate to date has been based on partial or incorrect information. They have never even asked for a comparison between subway and LRT, and the debate has continued in absence of that info. They consistency voted against receiving more info, accepted misleading info, and rejected requests to prioritize transit plans based on evidence.

I knew most of this that information. Not sure why a councillor wouldn't. None of it really mattered too much after the decided to build the subway unless you were determined to overturn it. If Matlow finds this information useful in his quest to push the old LRT plan upon Scarborough thatw his choice. Im sure he was tickled to be reminded there is hope. Albeit unrealistic in this climate.

Their whole angle has been to find ways to stop the SSE, at this stage they should be fighting for ways to improve it. But this is the state of our Politics on both sides. Pick a side and try to over turn the other plan.

 

[salsa]

More evidence confirming what subway councillors refuse to believe.

 

[TOareaFan]

I knew most of this that information. Not sure why a councillor wouldn't. None of it really mattered after the decided to build the subway. If Matlow finds this information useful in his quest to push the old LRT plan upon Scarborough that his choice. Im sure he was tickled to be reminded there is hope. Albeit unrealistic in this climate.

That's their whole angle is to find ways to stop the SSE, they should be fighting for ways to improve it.

I think the point is that this is not evidence based decision making.....it is decision based evidence seeking.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's their whole angle is to find ways to stop the SSE, at this stage they should be fighting for ways to improve it. But this is the state of our Politics

Fighting for ways to improve it requires an acknowledgement that the current plan is deficient, inefficient and supported by beliefs and not hard data. So far, there is no such acknowledgement from the proponents in council.

AoD

 

[OneCity]

Fighting for ways to improve it requires an acknowledgement that the current plan is deficient, inefficient and supported by beliefs and not hard data. So far, there is no such acknowledgement from the proponents in council.

AoD

Yes we can discuss hard data for another ten decades. Thats not his angle here.

I think the point is that this is not evidence based decision making.....it is decision based evidence seeking.

Its evidence being collected to overturn the subway. One sided evidence. Like I said if he finds this useful in his quest that's his choice.

As a councillor if you cant compromise or see the flaws in the LRT plan by now you're part of the problem not the solution.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yes we can discuss hard data for another ten decades. Thats not his angle`here.

Actually, if we all agreed to actually base decisions on hard data the debates would become shorter.....it is the hard headed refusal to use data that lengthens debates.

 

[salsa]

I knew most of this that information. Not sure why a councillor wouldn't.

But that information wasn't available when council decided to kill the LRT, nor was there a business case comparing the LRT to subway. Yes it's too late now, but the only reason we ended up here was because of false, misleading or incomplete information. And even to this day, some councillors are still trying their best to block the truth from coming out. No matter which side you're on, this is not right.