Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[dowlingm]

I was intrigued by the DRT request to access Scarborough Town transit terminal which got me thinking about congestion and capacity issues.

Does anyone know why no TTC bus route serves McCowan, while 57 Midland does not divert into STC as 129 McCowan does? It's not ideal that McCowan (and Midland) aren't accessible of course. because McCowan

 

[OneCity]

I do. And I see either the subway nothing getting built. Why? Ontario has too much debt. We'll see. Brown and Doug don't hang out a lot. And again, he doesn't actually need Scarborough. We'll see. But I have it at 50/50 right now. I would love to see this built but people do read the Star and even the Sun, and the escalating costs right now is not a good thing to say the least.

Ontario’s newest MPP credited Doug Ford for his success. https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...d-snafu-dominates-scarborough-byelection.html

“Without his help, I don’t think I would win this election,” said Cho.

http://www.counterweights.ca/2016/09/how-important-was-rob-ford’s-brother-in-latest-ontario-byelection/

Yes we'll see. After the last election I would say they cant take any riding for granted. The Liberals shouldnt win but they are like the New England Patriots, theyll do anything to win. So dont ever never bet against them. Seems pretty clear where the Cons stand on Scarborough transit and regardless of what the media says the price tag hasnt changed, the Provinces funding commitment should not have to change and who knows, the cost might have even de-escalated?

Also If Ford runs for Mayor again in 2018. Guaranteed he's "all in" DRL, Sheppard subway and SSE and will be in full attack over the "one stop" and the failing Smart track.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I was intrigued by the DRT request to access Scarborough Town transit terminal which got me thinking about congestion and capacity issues.

Does anyone know why no TTC bus route serves McCowan, while 57 Midland does not divert into STC as 129 McCowan does? It's not ideal that McCowan (and Midland) aren't accessible of course. because McCowan

I seriously wonder how the STC station is going to look like. That reason alone is why they should consider elevation.

Ontario’s newest MPP credited Doug Ford for his success. https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...d-snafu-dominates-scarborough-byelection.html

“Without his help, I don’t think I would win this election,” said Cho.

http://www.counterweights.ca/2016/09/how-important-was-rob-ford’s-brother-in-latest-ontario-byelection/

Yes we'll see. After the last election I would say they cant take any riding for granted. The Liberals shouldnt win but they are like the New England Patriots, theyll do anything to win. So dont ever never bet against them. Seems pretty clear where the Cons stand on Scarborough transit and regardless of what the media says the price tag hasnt changed, the Provinces funding commitment should not have to change and who knows, the cost might have even de-escalated?

Brown already stabbed social conservatives in the back lol, you'll see it with him. I have it at 50/50, I do believe the costs have changed, only because they always do with these things. I would bet there would be subways on Bloor and Sheppard East at this point, but I just don't trust these politicians. As to your Liberal comment, you are correct, but I don't see Wynne sticking around for the next 4 years, win or not...

 

[micheal_can]

How much does each station cost to build if the line is a bored tunnel?

 

[Steve X]

How much does each station cost to build if the line is a bored tunnel?

It would depend on the depth. Lawrence/McCowan would be the most expensive as it would be located under West Highland creek. If the SSE goes with one large 12m diameter tunnel, it would be different than the twin tunnels on the Crosstown. They can complete the platform within the tunnel and just dig the shafts for stairs and elevators. The Crosstown platforms are constructed outside the tunnel and would require the excavation of the entire station box either with cut and cover or mined from the inside.

 

[Hopkins123]

The latest in the seemingly never-ending saga of bringing a subway line to Scarborough Town Centre:

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/01/scarborough-subway-trojan-horse-alignment

 

[OneCity]

The latest in the seemingly never-ending saga of bringing a subway line to Scarborough Town Centre:

http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2017/01/scarborough-subway-trojan-horse-alignment

Sheppard LRT was basically left for dead in favour of the subway extension when the Liberals delayed the LRT until 2021. Tory and the Provincial Liberals, The Fords & Provincial Conservatives are clearly all on board and I truly don't see this going back. The loop makes sense, I just hope the Eglinton LRT extension is pushed thru and funded without delays while this loop moves forward.

The DRL is moving forward as well and if the rowdy opposition at City hall can simmer and not fight a reasonable plan which looks to be inevitable, half the tab for all these line could be funded by the Feds.

 

[micheal_can]

It would depend on the depth. Lawrence/McCowan would be the most expensive as it would be located under West Highland creek. If the SSE goes with one large 12m diameter tunnel, it would be different than the twin tunnels on the Crosstown. They can complete the platform within the tunnel and just dig the shafts for stairs and elevators. The Crosstown platforms are constructed outside the tunnel and would require the excavation of the entire station box either with cut and cover or mined from the inside.

I am just trying to see what 2-3 more stations added to the overall construction would cost.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Meanwhile, in a want-to-be world class city named "Paris" in France, from this link:

Paris light rail to nudge 250km within the next six years

LRT networks of various configurations across the capital region to more than double by 2022.

Paris will mark the 30th anniversary of the launch of its first modern tramway line in 2022 by extending its network to almost 250km (155 miles).

The French capital abandoned the last section of its first-generation tramways in 1938, but brought light rail back in July 1992 with the opening of the 9.1km (5.6-mile) line T1 between Bobigny and La Corneuve. Since June 2016 eight lines are in operation, totalling 105km (65 miles), including two rubber-tyred lines using the NTL/Translohr system, and one tram-train operated on former SNCF tracks.

Projects now authorised will take the network to 246km (153 miles) within six years, extending existing lines and opening others, taking the total to 13.

What is remarkable about the Paris network is that most lines are standalone operations with little or no connection to each other. Only at Gare de St-Denis is there a track connection between T1 and T8, while the apparent connection between T2 and T3a at Porte de Versailles is illusory because each line is operated by rolling stock of different widths.

T10 will be a conventional tramway with its own depot, despite crossing rubber-tyred T6 (which has its own depot). Clearly some of the extensions open up possibilities for connections (T1/T2 near Pont de Bezons and T3a/T9 at Porte de Choisy).

T1: Noisy-le-Sec – Asnières-Gennevilliers-Les Courtilles (17km/10.6 miles); extension from Noisy-le-Sec to Val de Fontenay (10.7km/6.6 miles) and from Asnières to Colombes-Gabriel Péri (6.5km/four miles)

T2: Porte de Versailles – Pont de Bezons (17.9km/11.1 miles)

T3a: Pont du Garigliano – Porte de Vincennes (12.3km/7.6 miles)

T3b: Porte de Vincennes – Porte de la Chapelle (9.5km/5.9 miles); extension from Porte de la Chapelle to Porte d’Asnieres (4.3km/2.7 miles) and further expansion from Porte d’Asnieres to Porte Dauphine (3km/1.9 miles)

T4: Tram-train Aulnay-sous-Bois – Bondy (7.9km/4.9 miles); new branch from Bondy Gargan to L’hôpital de Montfermeil (6.5km/ four miles)

T5: Saint-Denis – Garges-Sarcelles (6.6km/4.1 miles)

T6: Châtillon Montrouge – Viroflay Rive Droite (14km/8.7 miles)

T7: Villejuif – Porte de l’Essonne (11.2km/seven miles); extension from Porte d l’Essonne to Juvisy-sur-Orge (3.8km/2.4 miles)

T8: Saint-Denis – Épinay-sur-Seine/Villetaneuse (8.45km/5.3 miles)

New line T9: Porte de Choisy – Orly Ville (10.3km/6.4 miles)

New line T10: Antony – Clamart (8.2km/5.1 miles)

New line T11: Tram-train Satrouville – Noisy-le-Sec (28km/17.4 miles)

New line T12: Tram-train Massy-Palaiseau – Evry-Courcouronnes (20km/12.4 miles); extension from Massy-Palaiseau to Versailles Chantiers (14.6km/nine miles)

New line T13: Tram-train Saint-Cyr – Acheres Ville (29km/18 miles)
​

All the while Toronto is very busy discussing, cancelling, and doing nothing. They can't do any improvements to a 6.4 km (4.0 mi) line.

 

[amnesiajune]

Does anyone know why no TTC bus route serves McCowan, while 57 Midland does not divert into STC as 129 McCowan does?

STC is the start/end of the 129 route. The Midland bus runs from Eglinton to Steeles and would have to make a 1.5 km detour to go into Scarborough Centre.

 

[ssiguy2]

Of course SkyTrain can be supplied by different suppliers. All you have to have is a LIM provider and ATC and then use them on your existing fleet offering. To say otherwise is like saying Toronto can only get streetcars from Bombardier because Toronto has non-standard track. As for this bend at Kennedy issue, only Toronto would decide that the resolution to having to spend. $300 million is to fix it with $3 billion .

SkyTrain has proven itself to be an efficient, safe, comfortable, high frequency, high capacity, fast, and reliable system, the hallmarks of a great transit system and the fact that Toronto would even contemplate replacing it is scandalous.

 

[smallspy]

Of course SkyTrain can be supplied by different suppliers. All you have to have is a LIM provider and ATC and then use them on your existing fleet offering.

I'd like to agree with you, but considering that there is only one company who currently markets and sells that particular transit system - and that is Bombardier - I can't.

The proof is in the pudding - when the TTC went looking to expand the size of the fleet, they had to approach Bombardier as they were the sole-source provider of the equipment. It was only when Bombardier quoted them a kings ransom for new equipment - over $5mil per car - that the TTC balked.

Say, who else has provided equipment to Vancouver as their ART system expanded? That's right....no one.

To say otherwise is like saying Toronto can only get streetcars from Bombardier because Toronto has non-standard track.

Would you like some apples to go with your oranges? Because that's a pretty silly comparison - and I'm sure that all of the other properties using non-standard track gauges (such as Philly, to mention just our closest neighbour) would agree with that assessment.

SkyTrain has proven itself to be an efficient, safe, comfortable, high frequency, high capacity, fast, and reliable system, the hallmarks of a great transit system and the fact that Toronto would even contemplate replacing it is scandalous.

Sure, SkyTrain has. But that's because they decided, for better or for worse, that it would be the linchpin on which their whole transit system hinges on. In Toronto, it's nothing more than a accidental and unfortunate footnote in the annuals of Toronto's transit history.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[44 North]

Of course SkyTrain can be supplied by different suppliers. All you have to have is a LIM provider and ATC and then use them on your existing fleet offering. To say otherwise is like saying Toronto can only get streetcars from Bombardier because Toronto has non-standard track. As for this bend at Kennedy issue, only Toronto would decide that the resolution to having to spend. $300 million is to fix it with $3 billion .

SkyTrain has proven itself to be an efficient, safe, comfortable, high frequency, high capacity, fast, and reliable system, the hallmarks of a great transit system and the fact that Toronto would even contemplate replacing it is scandalous.

If we're using different suppliers, then it wouldn't be "Skytrain" anymore. It'd just be a smaller subway. And why the obsession with LIM (and Skytrain for that matter)? I'm just as huge a supporter of transitioning to smaller-scale subways to expand our system. But relying on one vehicle, built by one manufacturer, dependent on one propulsion system (a rather unique one common with roller coasters) just seems silly. Maybe Skytrain or LIM isn't the dictionary definition of proprietary, but it's close enough. Even Schabas acknowledged this in the past, and he wears his biases on his sleeve.

If we can order subways similar to the T1 or TR, but spec'd to be narrower and operating as ~100m-lng trains, and which use conventional DC third rail, then there's no need to rely on the "Skytrain" brand. There are probably dozens of manufacturers that can provide this, and are providing this across the globe.

 

[Steve X]

If we're using different suppliers, then it wouldn't be "Skytrain" anymore. It'd just be a smaller subway. And why the obsession with LIM (and Skytrain for that matter)? I'm just as huge a supporter of transitioning to smaller-scale subways to expand our system. But relying on one vehicle, built by one manufacturer, dependent on one propulsion system (a rather unique one common with roller coasters) just seems silly. Maybe Skytrain or LIM isn't the dictionary definition of proprietary, but it's close enough. Even Schabas acknowledged this in the past, and he wears his biases on his sleeve.

If we can order subways similar to the T1 or TR, but spec'd to be narrower and operating as ~100m-lng trains, and which use conventional DC third rail, then there's no need to rely on the "Skytrain" brand. There are probably dozens of manufacturers that can provide this, and are providing this across the globe.

You realize SkyTrain is the name to the Vancouver Rapid Transit network and not the name for the technology that Bombardier is offering. Bombardier calls them Innovia Metro. The Canada Line uses conventional DC subway trains and is consider part of the SkyTrain network. The name came from the trains mainly ran on elevated tracks like the Chicago 'L' trains which is just a subway.

 

[Leo_Chan]

To be honest if the proposal is going to go through as a single stop subway I won't be that displeased. Sometimes you need to pull the trigger, a single stop subway is better than a never-ending debate.

Just make some adjustments to allow for a Lawrence East Station to be built later.