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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

ssiguy2 said:
A transit line is only as reliable as it's weakest link and Eglinton has 6 km of accidents waiting to happen
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Quite true. But my point is that SRT should be refit for LRT, because at some point in time Eglinton east will become grade-separated (whether as part of the current plan as it should, or further into the future). Going with subway as an SRT replacement is rehashing a 45 year old debate that has its anti-subway arguing points more true than ever; and using MKIII or some other ICTS ensures future disconnect and one-time piecemeal extensions. If the $500M can be found for going with subway, this instead needs be used to elevate Eglinton east - thus adding to our Metro.

I'm no expert compared with virtually every other UT forumer, but IMO the modal choice of LRT for Eglinton makes the most sense. The astronomical costs boggle my mind and anger me, but LRT seems to be the optimal decision due to its flexibility and potential in-median or at-grade spurs/branches/extension along its route...like the Green Lines in Boston and Philly.

But yes, these costs. Something and everything needs to be done to bring them to realistic levels.
 
If Metrolinx is bound and determined to run LRT along Eglinton the very minimum it should do is run the new Primove catenary-free systems. It would require less height in the tunnels, wouldn't require a "raising the roof" retrofit of all the STC stations which would save a lot of money and time, and if they go with some elevation it would be far easier to build than very tall catenary wires.

Bombardier makes them so it wouldn't care and would actually probably jump at the chance of showcasing it's technology in NA.
Also these LRT trains are completely compatable with the regular LRT trains becasue the actually have the catenary connections as part of the train but are enclosed on the top of the train.
 
ssiguy2 said:
If Metrolinx is bound and determined to run LRT along Eglinton the very minimum it should do is run the new Primove catenary-free systems. It would require less height in the tunnels, wouldn't require a "raising the roof" retrofit of all the STC stations which would save a lot of money and time, and if they go with some elevation it would be far easier to build than very tall catenary wires.

Bombardier makes them so it wouldn't care and would actually probably jump at the chance of showcasing it's technology in NA.
Also these LRT trains are completely compatable with the regular LRT trains becasue the actually have the catenary connections as part of the train but are enclosed on the top of the train.
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they are already digging... too late to get different drills... and as much as I like the catenary connections they don't want to be held hijack with a technology that might become the beta of transit. Your counter argument is that they only purchase from bombardier. Even if this is true things may change in the future and its never a good idea to give even the company you are loyal to a monopoly.
 
Seems like common sense is striking back. The Eglinton-SRT combo was always a sub-par option leaving a good chunk of Eglinton East unserved.

They need to extend the Bloor-Danforth line to STC. The vast majority of riders are travelling from the McCowan/STC area to Kennedy. The other major stop is Lawrence East. This subway plan covers McCowan/STC, moves Lawrence East closer to the Hospital and puts a subway stop on the doorstep of Malvern and Agicourt, while also connecting with the Sheppard East LRT.

They should be running Eglinton through Kennedy right to Kingston. Maybe combine it with the eventual Morningside LRT.
 
Agree with you most kEiThZ on this one. Also, it is far too late to change the technology, and getting tied into another proprietary Bombardier system after the Scarb RT is just silly and irresponsible to future citizens who will have to pay to replace vehicles.
 
I've resigned myself to the fact that a Bloor-Danforth extension to Sheppard & McCowan won't happen. I still think it's the best option, but we are where we are.

I think attention should be focused on trying to get something done for Eglinton East, preferably elevated. It's too late to do anything about the technology choice, but it's definitely not too late to demand elevated instead of at-grade. Heck, Metrolinx has already recently made a bunch of changes to the eastern and western portions of the tunnel area (changes at Leslie and Mt. Dennis).

Doing an elevated redesign of Eglinton East may push the construction timeline of that segment back by a year or two, but I think it would be worth it. The tunnelled section and the SLRT can operate independently until the Eglinton East section is open, in which case the two segments can be combined into a single thru-line.

As for funding, either take some of it from changing the Sheppard East LRT to a BRT, or for the City of Toronto to cover the additional costs. Either way, a worthwhile expense.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Toronto has been given $8 and with all that money isn't getting one foot of grade separated transit.......heads should roll. For that kind of money Toronto could easily double it's Metro system and provide Torontonians the true rapid transit that they desperately need.
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They want to fix every transit problem with those $8 billions. However the world doesn't work that way. You get what you pay for. The mentality of building towards a vision doesn't exist in the current governments. It's like one doesn't buy a house because they do not have the entire sum of money.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
Toronto has been given $8 and with all that money isn't getting one foot of grade separated transit.......heads should roll. For that kind of money Toronto could easily double it's Metro system and provide Torontonians the true rapid transit that they desperately need.
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Double? Are you insane? There is no way that Toronto could DOUBLE their metro system with $8 billion. The 5 station Spadina extension costs $2.5-3 Billion alone. This isn't the 1950s where you could build a subway on the cheap.

You'd be looking at at least $30 - 40 Billion to double the size of the subway system.
 
hes on a crazy rant again on how you could easily get 70 km of ICTS that his beloved vancouver gets for $8 bucks. That can barely buy me a meal at mcdonalds, I don't know how he proposes getting 70 km of rapid transit out of it..

/s
 
gweed123 said:
I've resigned myself to the fact that a Bloor-Danforth extension to Sheppard & McCowan won't happen. I still think it's the best option, but we are where we are.

I think attention should be focused on trying to get something done for Eglinton East, preferably elevated. It's too late to do anything about the technology choice, but it's definitely not too late to demand elevated instead of at-grade. Heck, Metrolinx has already recently made a bunch of changes to the eastern and western portions of the tunnel area (changes at Leslie and Mt. Dennis).

Doing an elevated redesign of Eglinton East may push the construction timeline of that segment back by a year or two, but I think it would be worth it. The tunnelled section and the SLRT can operate independently until the Eglinton East section is open, in which case the two segments can be combined into a single thru-line.

As for funding, either take some of it from changing the Sheppard East LRT to a BRT, or for the City of Toronto to cover the additional costs. Either way, a worthwhile expense.
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It just amazes me how screwed Scarborough gets and no one gives a rat's ass.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
It just amazes me how screwed Scarborough gets and no one gives a rat's ass.
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IMO, it's only really getting screwed if the forced transfer at Kennedy remains. If they have a one seat rapid transit ride into and out of Scarborough, I wouldn't really consider that being screwed. Of course, unless Eglinton East is elevated, there won't be any one seat ride because the ECLRT and SLRT will effectively be 2 separate lines. Then yes, they're getting screwed.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
It just amazes me how screwed Scarborough gets and no one gives a rat's ass.
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3 new rapid transit lines? A major upgrade of Kennedy station? I wish I was screwed like that!

Etobicoke is the part of the city that has been screwed! The Eglinton line through Etobicoke has been deferred indefinitely, and who knows if the Finch West line will every actually get there.
 
gweed123 said:
IMO, it's only really getting screwed if the forced transfer at Kennedy remains. If they have a one seat rapid transit ride into and out of Scarborough, I wouldn't really consider that being screwed. Of course, unless Eglinton East is elevated, there won't be any one seat ride because the ECLRT and SLRT will effectively be 2 separate lines. Then yes, they're getting screwed.
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I haven't see any indication that people will be able to get a one-seat ride from STC to downtown.

nfitz said:
3 new rapid transit lines? A major upgrade of Kennedy station? I wish I was screwed like that!

Etobicoke is the part of the city that has been screwed! The Eglinton line through Etobicoke has been deferred indefinitely, and who knows if the Finch West line will every actually get there.
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A spaghetti bowl of disconnected transit lines is what Scarborough is getting. Sure that's fantastic.

Although I do not disagree that Etobicoke is even worse off. No Bloor line extension, plus the issues with Eglinton to Pearson and Finch West you already mentioned.

Whether Mississauga gets screwed on the Hurontario LRT or not remains to be seen.
 
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