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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

gweed123 said:
Using the same alignment that was proposed in the SRT extension and SLRT options.
Click to expand...

Right. So an elevated structure along Progress and North across the 401, and then entering the tunnel portal at Milner to emerge in the next portal at Malvern Town Centre? Or are you suggesting continuing the elevation/at-grade along that same ROW?

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but this seems pretty challenging.
 
salsa said:
It's easy to draw lines on a map, but it seems like none of you have considered the technical issues.

Steve Munro: The TTC has already indicated that no matter what runs along the SRT corridor (if anything), the elevated structure must be rebuilt. At a minimum, the stations will require major changes because of platform heights and vehicle widths. It is likely that two SmartTrack trains would not physically fit beside each other in the existing stations. There is also the question of curves and the grade up to the elevated from the rail corridor at Ellesmere to Midland Station. This is probably too demanding for the equipment that SmartTrack will use. Such a junction would also require grade separation given the likely headways.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for others, but I assume that replacing the SRT elevated portion was thought of by most.

The thing is that we are spending $3.5B+ on the Scarborough Subway.

Vancouver is spending about $100M/km for elevated transit - Let's double it to $200M/km and that uses up about $1.4B for the 7km extension to Malvern. Add another $100M for the Ellesmere interchange and you get $1.5B.

You could even give Scarborough a 3 stop, 4km B-D subway extension to Markham Rd./Kingston Rd. and Eglinton for about $1.5B and still be ahead. Alternatively, you could add the remaining $2.0B to the $1.0B for the SELRT and build the Sheppard subway to STC. The only down-side is the SRT closure time.

The Scarborough Subway is sucking up a lot of money. The S/LRT plan as been rejected enough that there is no chance it will fly. But there are plenty of other ways to better improve transit that the current Subway idea.
 
Duck said:
I'm not joking at all - I like the rt and I think it's stupid that Toronto is going to rip out an existing piece of decent transit infrastructure instead of giving it some TLC. Look at Vancouver - their MK I ICTS trains run just fine, and they're refurbishing them.
Click to expand...

That would be a good solution, but it would only work if you get rid of the transfer at Kennedy. This can only be done by grade-separating Eglinton. By the looks of it, this will not be done.

Thus, we are forced to look for other solutions.

Wit te decision to NOT connect te SRT wit te ECLRT
 
wopchop said:
Right. So an elevated structure along Progress and North across the 401, and then entering the tunnel portal at Milner to emerge in the next portal at Malvern Town Centre? Or are you suggesting continuing the elevation/at-grade along that same ROW?

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but this seems pretty challenging.
Click to expand...

Elevated over the 401, and then either continuing at-grade or elevated into Malvern. The tunnel portion may be difficult to do because the slopes required may be too steep for GO RER, whereas they wouldn't be for LRT.

BurlOak said:
I can't speak for others, but I assume that replacing the SRT elevated portion was thought of by most.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it was my assumption that the existing SRT guideway would be torn down and replaced with one for GO RER. The guideway along the extension would be built to the same GO RER standards. Scarborough Centre Station would likely need to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch.

In terms of interim options, what I would like to see is the Stouffville line double tracked at least between the SRT branch-off and Kennedy, with new stations built at Ellesmere and Lawrence East between the two tracks. When the SRT is shut down, a GO-type shuttle would run between Ellesmere and Kennedy, with all bus routes that used to serve STC being extended to Ellesmere. This would eliminate the need to have a massive shuttle bus fleet between STC and Kennedy during the shutdown and replacement.

The guideway between the Stouffville corridor and STC would be prioritized for construction, with that segment opening first. Depending on how far along electrification is, they can start running the full service to Union, or extend the shuttle to STC. Once the electrification is complete, run the routes to Union, and start work on extending the guideway to Malvern.
 
salsa said:
It's easy to draw lines on a map
Click to expand...

Sure is!

Here is what transit in Scarborough can look like:

ocUqE0N.jpg


Blue - SmartTrack
Yellow - GO-RER

Wasn't sure about SELRT stop spacing but IIRC there would be many more stations on the map there. Honestly I think that is a mistake by Miller's Transit City, less stops would be better.

After bringing SmartTrack over the 401 on Progress I used the corridor on Rosebank Park to McLevin Ave before veering up and meeting the railway there. I'm not sure what that corridor on Rosebank is for but judging from Google streetview it is wide enough for an elevated track.

Since SmartTrack is essentially GO-RER with more stations in the 416 and fare integration, adding a Finch station on the Stouffville line in the absence of SmartTrack accomplishes the same thing.
 
WislaHD said:
Sure is!

Here is what transit in Scarborough can look like:

Blue - SmartTrack
Yellow - GO-RER

Wasn't sure about SELRT stop spacing but IIRC there would be many more stations on the map there. Honestly I think that is a mistake by Miller's Transit City, less stops would be better.

After bringing SmartTrack over the 401 on Progress I used the corridor on Rosebank Park to McLevin Ave before veering up and meeting the railway there. I'm not sure what that corridor on Rosebank is for but judging from Google streetview it is wide enough for an elevated track.

Since SmartTrack is essentially GO-RER with more stations in the 416 and fare integration, adding a Finch station on the Stouffville line in the absence of SmartTrack accomplishes the same thing.
Click to expand...

If you're going to tunnel through Malvern anyway, why not tunnel underneath Sewells Rd for a direct Malvern Station at Sewells/Neilson centrally located to all those apartment buildings, community centre and the mall? There's also merit in having a station in the Morningside/Finch vincinity.
 
Palma said:
Another vote on the Scarborough subway? When will this madness end?
Click to expand...

Of course there are several other votes needed.

I'm not sure what exactly the votes are for, but City Council may need to approve things such as alignment after the EA is completed, additional funding if the EA finds that current funding is insufficient and, allocated spending in the municipal budget. Council may also need to approve a new master agreement with the province.
 
Last edited:
Rainforest said:
Not a slightest chance. The province will not overwrite the City Council's vote and impose local taxes that are in the municipal jurisdiction. That never happens.

Of course, the province may grant money to Toronto, and it may impose provincial transit taxes. Scarborough has very little say in that matter. But the funds raised that way will belong to the province and will be split between multiple municipalities.



That's debatable, and depends on the frequency of SmartTrack.
Click to expand...

Jacked Up doesn't mean just taxes, it could mean getting nothing as well.
 
Hopkins123 said:
If you're going to tunnel through Malvern anyway, why not tunnel underneath Sewells Rd for a direct Malvern Station at Sewells/Neilson centrally located to all those apartment buildings, community centre and the mall? There's also merit in having a station in the Morningside/Finch vincinity.
Click to expand...

The alignment I chose is on top of a rail corridor, no/minimal tunneling required. Otherwise, a station at Sewells/Neilson would be better.

I should've put a disclaimer in my post, I have little knowledge on this area and I have never been to Malvern in my life. :p
 
WislaHD said:
Sure is!

Here is what transit in Scarborough can look like:

ocUqE0N.jpg


Blue - SmartTrack
Yellow - GO-RER

Wasn't sure about SELRT stop spacing but IIRC there would be many more stations on the map there. Honestly I think that is a mistake by Miller's Transit City, less stops would be better.

After bringing SmartTrack over the 401 on Progress I used the corridor on Rosebank Park to McLevin Ave before veering up and meeting the railway there. I'm not sure what that corridor on Rosebank is for but judging from Google streetview it is wide enough for an elevated track.
Click to expand...

The route you have looks to be basically the route that was recommended for the SRT Extension. The line was to be elevated from McCowan along Highland creek, north up Progress and across the 401. Coming up to Milner, it was to dive down into a tunnel through Rosebank Park to emerge at McLevin Ave, where it would run alongside McLevin Ave elevated to Malvern Town Centre. Any further extension to Morningside was to be elevated, but along what route, I'm not sure.
 
WislaHD said:
The alignment I chose is on top of a rail corridor, no/minimal tunneling required. Otherwise, a station at Sewells/Neilson would be better.

I should've put a disclaimer in my post, I have little knowledge on this area and I have never been to Malvern in my life. :p
Click to expand...

Presumably the ROW through the abandoned railway corridor in Malvern would have to be underground because it literally runs not that far from people's backyards. Not knocking your map, just suggesting how it could be improved. If underground already through the abandoned railway ROW, this line could transition easily through the playground of Dr Marion Hilliard Public School onto Sewells Rd and run underneath til Morningside Ave. At Morningside there's an adjacent side-of-roadway ROW up to the Seaton rail corridor where the line could be constructed without interfering with traffic. Here's an illustration of how it could be built:

 
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